Luke Flanagan (Roscommon-South Leitrim, Independent)

Some people would suggest that Dáil Éireann is not representative of the whole country. While previous speakers have been able to contribute to this debate in Irish I am going to spoil the party and speak in English, which proves this House is not an exact representation of the country. Nowhere in this country, other than in this House, one would come across so many Irish speaking people. I do not know why it is the case. Perhaps Members of the House were better at and could better absorb Irish at school than I could. However, it is a positive thing. I am not being critical, it is brilliant that so many Members of this House can speak Irish. I suppose I am jealous I cannot speak it. However, one would say that is my own fault.

I have listened to the debate on this Bill during the past week and heard the Minister of State speak about it on radio last week. The Minister of State, Deputy McGinley, is, of all Ministers in this Government, 100% genuine in terms of what he is trying to do. He is massively passionate about this subject, which indicates he cares about it. It would be unfair of me to say to him here that in pushing through this Bill, even though many groups are speaking against it, he does not care about the Irish language. That would be rubbish. The Minister of State obviously cares about the Irish language.

What I have picked up from the debate is that we should focus more on the few small areas where Irish is standard rather than try to over-stretch ourselves. In other words, areas wherein more than two thirds of the people speak it every day. There is no template on the planet on how to restore a language. I am no expert on this issue and as such cannot criticise what is being proposed. I do not know what way to fall in terms of the argument being made. I look forward to listening to the remainder of the debate, following which, hopefully, I can make up my mind.

I see some sense in the argument that we should be protecting those few areas wherein Irish is the main language. I do so based on my experience of having left Ireland to live in Germany and Spain. I got three pass level Ds in languages in my leaving certificate examination, which left me with the impression I was rubbish at languages. I was good at mathematics. However, when I went to live in Germany I was able to learn German because I was immersed in it and needed to understand it to survive. Even though I did not study Spanish in school, when I went to live in Spain, despite my belief that I had no ability to learn languages, after a couple of months I could in Spanish, without fear of making an eejit of myself, order vegetables, bread and so on in a store and a taxi over the phone. I learned enough of both languages to enable me get by in both countries. I may be coming down on the side of those who argued with the Minister of State on the radio this week that we need to concentrate on particular areas because, if they disappear, then people like me, who are not the best at learning from books - this applies to the majority of people with whom I attended school - will never have an opportunity of going to the only places where we can learn the Irish language. I was able to learn Spanish and German in Spain and Germany.

Many years ago, when I was on the dole and there was no prospect of my getting work I decided to move to the Gaeltacht. I moved to An Spidéal, which is a lovely place. However, one did not need to speak Irish to survive there. Being able to speak Irish was not an essential unlike when I went to Spain whereby the only way I could get home was to learn some Spanish. In Spiddal there was always someone available to tell me in English what to do. As such I fell back and did not learn the language. I had a different experience in Carraroe in that there I was immersed in the Irish language, although there "bicycle" and "ashtray" were translated as "wicycle" and "tashtray. For this reason, I fall, perhaps, on the side of the argument that we must protect these areas.

I know how genuine the Minister of State is and I could not imagine him jeopardising this, which leaves me not knowing which side of the argument I should support. The Minister of State wants to preserve the language. I am sure he understands the importance of these areas and would not want them destroyed, which leaves me pretty undecided about where I stand on this. While I welcome the idea of having towns where the language will be developed, I am a little concerned about the removal of democracy provision. Given my experience on county councils I would be concerned that because of this the Minister of State would not get as many people dedicated to the idea of saving the Irish language as he would if people had consciously to run for election. At the end of the day, regardless of what is done with this, the future of the Irish language rests in how it is taught in schools. The last time I spoke about the Irish language in here, I explained how my eldest daughter, who loved the language at the age of seven because they were playing bingo in Irish and doing other such things, has now at the age of nine grown to hate it. I had always been told that one of the reasons children did not like the Irish language was that they get negative vibes about it at home, which they definitely do not get in my home because I use the little bit of Irish I have with them. However, still she has grown to hate it and she is not unique because everyone in her class seems to hate it. Hate is a strong word, but they hate using the language and find it boring, irrelevant and tedious. We are discussing how the language could die in 15 to 20 years. In ten years' time all the students in my daughter's class will have left school and if they hate it as much as they do now they will still hate it unless something major changes.

We hear that the Irish language could potentially be finished in 15 years. In addition to this something serious needs to be done with how Irish is taught in schools. I understand that we are moving towards 40% of the State examinations being oral or aural. I believe we should have an examination that is 100% spoken Irish, without the need to explain the symbolism of the poem . It is so much more important to know how to order a loaf of bread or pay into a disco than it is to know about the symbolism of the lost province or whatever it was meant to be about. While that is also important those are different layers adding more texture to the language and we need to get the basics right first.

I am ashamed to say what I am about to say. Out of my class in school - we were the weakest class- half of us did not know what "ní thuigim" meant until a couple of weeks before doing our leaving certificate oral examination. Sometimes something has to become essential before people do anything about it. It became essential for us because we needed the ability in the oral examination to say, "I don't understand." We learned more Irish in a three-week crash course before the oral examination than we had done in the previous 13 years. That was a massive achievement - a massive negative achievement - and indicates how it could be done so much better.

There are other approaches to immersion than being in a Gaeltacht. I understand Deputy Mattie McGrath has suggested twinning Gaeltachtaí with other areas. When I grew up, my parents could not afford to send me to the Gaeltacht - it was the rich kids who went to the Gaeltacht. Some of them were my friends who probably did not realise they were rich, but they were richer than us. We were excluded. Twinning towns would bring the Gaeltacht to towns.

The most significant development in the Irish language was the introduction of TG4. Until I watched "Wimbledon Beo" last week I did not know what "freastail" meant. While knowing what it meant did not make much difference to my life, watching "Wimbledon Beo" it did. I discovered that freastail means to serve and there was a reason to know it. People need reasons to know it. One would do far more for the Irish language with the Solus bulb because it is there on the package and one cannot miss it. That is how we can make the Irish language survive. I look forward to listening with interest to the rest of the debate. I do not yet know how I will vote on the Bill. I accept that the Minister of State is genuine on the matter and I do not believe he would try to damage the Irish language. We will see how it goes anyway.

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