Dáil debates

Friday, 6 July 2012

Freedom of Information (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill 2012: Second Stage

 

11:00 am

Photo of Billy KelleherBilly Kelleher (Cork North Central, Fianna Fail)

I welcome an opportunity to speak on the Bill. One of the functions of a modern, open democracy is to have in place structures which allow law-abiding citizens to go about their business unhindered. Further opening up the Freedom of Information Act would advance democracy and make the democratic institutions of the State more accountable to individuals. The Bill refers to the supply of information to committees. It is frustrating to members of committees that they cannot secure meaningful information in a quick, transparent, effective and efficient manner. Deputy Fleming, whom I compliment on introducing the Bill, has made a worthy proposal on this regard.

Openness and transparency are important functions of a modern democracy and require that Government and State institutions be held accountable and are obliged to make information available on request. Equally, where rights are conferred on people, so too are responsibilities. With the advances in technology, freedom of information requests can be more easily assessed and brought together than heretofore. In this context, when software packages are being designed, the issue of freedom of information requests should be taken into account to make sure the handling of them is efficient, effective and meaningful and does not tie up a system in bureaucracy. Clearly, spurious or bogus freedom of information requests could be submitted on an ongoing basis that could have a detrimental effect on the workings of a Department or agency in terms of assessing, collating and gathering information. One should ensure both that efficiencies are made and that bogus or spurious freedom of information requests are removed in some way. I acknowledge this is difficult because one would not seek to hinder the basic principle of freedom of information, which is that information is made freely available.

Much revision takes place in this Chamber from time to time about openness, honesty and transparency, to which both the Minister of State and Deputy McDonald referred - the latter in great detail - and about how Fianna Fáil in some way tried to downgrade the Freedom of Information Act in 2003. I acknowledge some curbs were then introduced but the basic principle of the Freedom of Information Act clearly was upheld in the amending Act of 2003. The latter was based on recommendations brought forward by secretaries general of various Departments at the time, who had concerns. However, in hindsight, I believe the decision to tighten the provisions probably was the wrong one. Nevertheless, the basic principle of individuals having access to their own files was not diminished in any way. Although there has been much spinning to the effect that this principle was curtailed in dramatic fashion, this is not the case. As Deputy Troy pointed out, the Information Commissioner's report shows that on a continual basis, year on year, the number of applications for freedom of information requests rose and the number of responses concurred with that upward spiral. In other words, the amendment did not inhibit individuals. Its purpose was to curtail requests in some areas in which it was considered that the process was being abused. That said, Fianna Fáil supports the opening up of freedom of information and Deputy Fleming's Bill is quite clear in this regard.

As for remarks made about my political party and its attempts to cover up, one should be clear that Fianna Fáil has served the State well. Moreover, the democratic functions in this State have, in large part, been put in place by Fianna Fáil. While I do not wish to go over the revision of history, Sinn Féin might open up to a little sharing of the information it possesses about the murder of Robert McCartney, about the disappeared and about the bodies lying in beaches in County Louth and buried in bogs in County Monaghan. Perhaps it is time for that political party to have a little transparency and honesty, as opposed to going about as the mouthpiece of the greatest murder machine in the European Continent in recent modern history. I will not take lectures on a political basis from a party that has consistently supported murder, extortion and killings and which to this day has not yet even apologised for them, except in some bland ways. Moreover, when it comes to lobbyists and fund-raising, Sinn Féin members are the great architects of lobbying and fund-raising. They raise millions in the United States every year that is unaccounted for in Sinn Féin's books when it comes to electioneering in the Republic of Ireland. It is clear that Deputy McDonald and Sinn Féin have much to answer for and I certainly will take no lectures. Moreover, I will not apologise for anything Fianna Fáil did with regard to the development and opening up of the State and in respect of standing by this Republic, this Chamber and this Oireachtas in difficult times. I acknowledge there were times when some of its members fell below the standards I desire and expect. However, we never stooped to the levels of Deputy McDonald's party members.

On the broader issue of some of the organisations involved, I wish to refer to NAMA in particular. I believe that even though the Minister of State has stated he accepts the principle of this Bill and that it will be read within nine months anyway and that the Government is going to move forward, NAMA must be brought under the remit of the freedom of information legislation immediately. I refer to a case in County Cork in which a large farm was sold without anyone knowing about it. It is a matter of public record that the auctioneering firm Savills was commissioned. It sold the farm in Carrigaline in a single bloc of more than 400 acres to an individual and did so without contacting any of the neighbouring landholders, some of whom had sold the land to the developer originally, to inform them the land was being offered for sale.

Both Deputy Michael McGrath and I have raised this issue with NAMA and seek answers on this particular issue. While I do not suggest there was anything untoward with what happened in County Cork, if one is to be honest about finding the marketplace, people at least should be informed that an item is for sale to enable them to put a bid on it. While everyone accepts that commercially-sensitive information must be protected at times, NAMA is a State-funded organisation. Moreover, it was referred to by the Tánaiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, Deputy Gilmore, as a bailout for builders, bankers and developers and for the friends of Fianna Fáil from the Galway tent. He described them in this Chamber as a bunch of tossers and yet Members are waiting endlessly for NAMA to be brought into the freedom of information fold. If the Labour Party believes NAMA to be an organisation of tossers, as described by the Tánaiste during the Order of Business in this Chamber some time ago when he was in opposition - he called them a bunch of tossers - such tossers should be brought under the remit of the Freedom of Information Act immediately. It is important for the public to have trust in the organisation, which was billed by the then Opposition and now Government as a bailout for builders and bankers. If this was the case and if the Government believes that, now is the time for its Members to put their money where their mouths are and place NAMA under the remit of the Freedom of Information Act immediately to make it accessible and accountable. NAMA attends Oireachtas committees periodically and when their members try to get information from it, it is akin to extracting teeth from a hen. I believe we cannot wait nine months for NAMA because it is acting in a situation that does not instil confidence on the part of the public in an organisation that is handling billions worth of assets on behalf of the State.

While I do not question the integrity of any single individual within NAMA, the institution itself must be changed, brought to account and opened up in order that Members can scrutinise its decisions and its decision-making process. However, it is disturbing that a farm in County Cork can be sold without anyone in the immediate area, other than the eventual purchaser, knowing it was for sale. If one wishes to find a real marketplace and to activate the market, the only way to so do is to have an open market with open bidding in which people can make a bid of a piece of property, a farm or a building. I believe concerns have arisen that NAMA could be associated with cosiness, which is an issue that must be explored. The only way to do that is to hold the agency to account in a meaningful and open way and the Freedom of Information Act is one such way. This could be done quickly through a small amendment to the present Act or through accepting Deputy Fleming's Bill as it stands. Moreover, this could be done before the summer recess. However, if the Government intends to wait for nine months and then to wait for a report from the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, this process could take 12, 16 or 18 months.

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