Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)

I thank the Ceann Comhairle for the opportunity to speak on the Criminal Justice (Withholding of Information on Offences Against Children and Vulnerable Persons) Bill 2012. The Bill deals strongly with the withholding of information on these offences. I will support this important Bill which is part of an overall strategy to protect children and defend their rights as citizens of this State.

In recent days we have seen more evidence of the abuse of children and deaths of children while in the care of the State. This was appalling and lack of action on the matter is not an option. This is not just a matter for the State or the HSE as we all have a duty to defend and protect the rights of children. In the past, too many people looked the other way, but they must now accept they have a personal responsibility. We must also consider the issues of abuse of alcohol and hard drugs. As we speak, too many children are suffering or are in pain because of the abuse of drugs or alcohol. Imagine the pain and anguish of a three or five year old child living in a home where alcohol or drugs are the norm or where violence is part of their daily life. How can we expect children living in such horrific conditions to be normal? How can we expect those children to learn at school when their personal lives are in turmoil? As a former primary school teacher, I have seen such children and have witnessed their pain, tears and hurt on a daily basis. The sad reality is that this is a cycle that continues and many of the children end up in care or in jail later in life. It is for that reason we need and I support legislation such as this.

Children in crisis need early intervention. They need care, support and above all stability. Stability is key. Children placed in stable homes, foster homes or proper care situations can be rescued if this is done early. I will return to this later but will deal first with the legislation itself. The Bill establishes in Irish law an offence of withholding information with regard to specified offences committed against a child or vulnerable person. The offence arises where a person knows or believes that a specified offence has been committed against a child or vulnerable person and he or she has information which he or she knows or believes might be of material assistance in securing the apprehension, prosecution or conviction of that other person for the offence and fails without reasonable excuse to disclose that information, as soon as it is practicable, to a member of the Garda Síochána. This is what the legislation is about and there are no ifs or buts about it. The Bill also provides for several offences against a charge of withholding information.

The Bill makes an amendment to the withholding of information offence in the Offences Against the State (Amendment) Act 1998. The use of the word "children" is important. It is clearly stated in the legislation that a child is a person under 18 years of age. This is crucial because as well as young child abuse there is a high percentage of abuse occurring at teenage level between 12 and 17 years of age. This is why I welcome the fact that a child is defined as being under 18 years of age.

A schedule 2 offence is an offence listed in Schedule 2 to the Bill. This Schedule refers to an offence to withhold information where such offences are committed against a vulnerable person. It is important to concentrate on the phrase "vulnerable person". There are many cases involving normal and natural children but there are other cases involving children and adults with an intellectual disability and we must be extra protective of these people. A vulnerable person is defined in the legislation as "a person who is suffering from either a mental, intellectual or physical disability which is of such a nature as to severely restrict the capacity of that person". It is important that this is stated clearly in the Bill. When dealing with children with a disability or children at risk, it is important to have examples of good practice.

We can have all the legislation in the world but if people on the front line are not doing their job efficiently then the cracks will emerge and we have seen this in the past. A good social worker, member of the Garda Síochána or primary school teacher can do a great deal of good and have a major impact. I have seen this in my previous job when I worked in a disadvantaged school in a disadvantaged area. I have seen juvenile liaison officers, JLOs, good social workers and good teachers intervene early in situations involving four and five year old children to assist the families. Often we hear about the bad and sad cases and those who slipped through the net but we do not hear of the cases involving examples of good practice.

There was a debate earlier in the year about DEIS programme schools. The Minister for Justice and Equality, the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs and the Minister for Education and Skills should consider examples of good practice in many of these DEIS programme schools. Some of these schools are doing an excellent job and I have seen this at first hand. Often front line teachers, special needs assistants and care workers who have a strong relationship with the local juvenile liaison officer from the Garda Síochána have intervened quickly and these people have been supportive in resolving these issues. It is important to mention these people in the debate.

Section 2(3) confirms that a child against whom the specified offence is committed shall not be guilty of an offence under this section. This defence will continue to apply even when the person is no longer a child. This is important. Section 3 deals with the offence of withholding information on certain offences against vulnerable persons. This section replicates the provisions of section 2 and applies them to specified offences committed against vulnerable persons. The specified offences which apply under this section are listed in Schedule 2 to the Bill. This is crucial as well. We must be creative, radical and preventative when it comes to these issues. We have all heard of clerical and institutional abuse but we must deal with situations in which paedophiles adapt to the changing situation and do so cleverly. People involved in the caring sections of Irish society, whether in education or supporting children and adults with an intellectual disability, must be strong and protective of the children.

A debate took place recently on the number of children who have died in State care. There is an understandable questioning of the report into the deaths of children while in the care of the HSE. I know from first-hand experience and from discussing the matter with people who care for young people with difficulties that many of those involved can see the problems coming down the tracks when the children arrive in their homes and when they arrive in the institutions. Many of those working in these areas can foresee the problems and often feel powerless. This is the sad reality of the care business.

Often, by the time the HSE intervenes to try to protect young persons entrusted to it, it is too late. This is the sad reality but it is not trendy or fashionable to say as much in the debate. Some of these casualties may already be beyond saving by the time the State is called in to take them under its control. It should come as no surprise that many somehow manage to escape into meaningful adulthood. The other extreme is where some of these children have come through horrific situations but manage to survive and come out at the other end. This is something that has not been recognised in the broader debate.

I put it to the Minister for Justice and Equality that early intervention is central and it represents the real solution. Often, by the time a child reaches 12 years of age it is too late. The front line care workers and primary school teachers will testify to this. I taught sixth class and I saw children at risk from aged 12 or 13 years of age. We had a considerable job to try to prevent them from ending up on drugs, on the streets or in Mountjoy Prison. If one intervenes early, at least one can do something. The whole ground has changed in recent years and people have accepted this. The Minister for Justice and Equality accepts it, as does the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs and the Minister for Education and Skills. Early intervention is central to dealing with this issue. This is based not on windy research but on the reality and the experience of people involved.

I referred to the children who make it. I have witnessed examples of children of 12 or 13 years of age who are living in crisis families and who are looking after smaller children of four and five years of age. These people are amazing. I have seen young boys and girls dressing their four and five year old brothers and sisters to get them to school in the morning. They must do so because of a particular dysfunction or crisis situation in the family. These children need our support as much as the direct victims. The carers of these children are often children themselves. Sometimes the carers are grandmothers and grandfathers who are supportive as well. I have seen children whose parents were strung out on drugs. These children were left in school until 2.30 p.m. or 3 p.m. and were not collected by their parents. The grandmother and grandfather were contacted by the school and they came to rescue the children. I am keen to mention these people in the debate because it is important.

Those of us on the left often refer to poverty and the neglect of children. Let us consider the reality. Often poor children from stable families will get on in life and I have seen this at first hand. Children from dysfunctional families, however, or families riddled with crime, alcohol or drug abuse, often end up in a difficult situation. How can we expect a two year old or a five year old child to be normal where there is violence and intimidation going on? One need only visit the courts on any given day to see the horrific nightmare in which children live with cocaine-fuelled families and high levels of violence. It is important to deal with the issue of children in crisis.

Institutions are important as well. We have modernised our institutions and care services. There are many excellent care services including St Michael's House and Prosper Fingal Services in Swords which deal with children and adults with an intellectual disability. These services have implemented their own good practices and they carry out a remarkable job.

I pay tribute to another group of people, namely, the foster parents of the country. These parents deliver considerable stability to families. They are Irish patriots and they have served their country. They receive some money to help fostered children but they also stop children going into institutions and they save many children. The work of the vast majority of foster parents is remarkable and I take this opportunity while the Minister for Justice and Equality is in the House to pay tribute to them. They have delivered for the taxpayer and the State. More important, the vast majority of them have delivered for the children of the country.

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