Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)

I hope the Acting Chairman, Deputy Tom Hayes, will give me some latitude and not be too hard on me. He and I, together with our Tipperary colleagues, are now serving a united constituency and must all stick together.

The Minister, Deputy Alan Shatter, indicated that the primary purpose of this Bill is to close a loophole in current law. The Offences Against the State (Amendment) Act 1998 provides for an offence of withholding information in regard to serious offences but specifically excludes sexual offences. This Bill will ensure there is an obligation on persons who have knowledge of any serious offence, including sexual offences, against children and vulnerable adults to inform the Garda of same. The Minister went on to say that recent banking and child abuse scandals have shown that some individuals and organisations knew or believed that crimes were being committed but did not alert the authorities to that effect. I am somewhat uneasy in referring to the banking scandal and child sex offences in the same sentence. I agree, however, that in both instances, the problem was that people in positions of authority did not speak up. In the case of the banking situation, the Financial Regulator and others, including Members of this House, should have exercised greater oversight. In the case of sexual offences against children and vulnerable adults, a variety of persons in authority were unable, unwilling or did not see the necessity of reporting these heinous crimes.

It is important that we take action to prevent any recurrence of such failures in the future. In some cases, action was not taken because of a fear of the consequences if suspicions were unfounded or because individuals were under no legal obligation to inform. Every citizen of this State could use that excuse in many areas. I have been involved in Muintir na Tíre and Community Alert since 1985 and have often found there is great reluctance among people to be an "informer". This is a legacy of attitudes that were widespread during the struggle for independence and beyond, when it was seriously frowned upon to supply any information to the peelers, the RIC or the RUC. We must leave those fears and ideologies to history by encouraging and supporting right-thinking people to do the right thing. An Garda Síochána, which works with Muintir na Tíre in operating the Community Alert and Neighbourhood Watch schemes in communities throughout the State, must be more proactive in offering that type of support and in becoming more socially integrated within the communities it serves. It is a retrograde step to close rural Garda stations and withdraw vehicles and other resources. What is good in one part of society is good in others.

The Protections for Persons Reporting Child Abuse Act 1998 provides safeguards for persons who report suspected child abuse in good faith. However, a similar protection does not currently extend to people reporting alleged abuse of vulnerable adults, which is a dreadful legislative anomaly at this point in our history. I heard snippets of the annual document published today by the Ombudsman, Ms Emily O'Reilly, which shows that whistleblowers in the Health Service Executive and elsewhere had to go to her office seeking redress after being punished and victimised for reporting wrongdoing. That is very regrettable.

It is important that we engage fully with this important discussion. Last year the Joint Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality examined the heads of this Bill and invited submissions thereon. Nine submissions were received and a public hearing took place on 30 November 2011 to examine the main points raised in further detail. That meeting was attended by representatives of Rape Crisis Network Ireland, One in Four, the CARI Foundation and one individual. A report was subsequently published by the committee, which I will deal with presently.

This is a shortcoming of the House. We are elected as legislators and would all like to profess that we know what is going on locally. We had arguments in committee earlier today concerning this matter. I believe that a public consultation was supposed to be held but it was hamfisted and shambolic. In light of this, I must put my hands up and say that I was not aware that this consultation was taking place. How can we make an effort when we have such an important consultation as the one on this legislation? How was it advertised or otherwise disseminated to the public, to groups or more importantly, to individuals? The latter may have been victims of abuse when they were children, whether in homes or in the family.

There are interesting figures provided as an addendum to this report about where such abuse takes place. It is not all confined to State or church bodies, as the media would often lead us to believe. The recent "Prime Time Investigates" programme, which has now deteriorated into a total farce, would lead us to believe that this all happened behind the doors of convents or religious brothers.

While I am not condoning one act of child abuse, I am condemning those who place all the blame on the church, perhaps for some other reasons. The Taoiseach's address to this House after the Cloyne report, may also have gone a little over the top. We have to be very careful in what we say here because we do not want to have more injustice perpetrated on people who gave good service to this State - namely the religious brothers and sisters and other reverend people North and South.

Last week, honest people from all over this country, including Northern Ireland, came in to meet us. They were not members of any group or organisation. They had resigned from those organisations because they felt it had all become about compensation. They felt some of those organisations had been hijacked, so they left. They came in here to address us openly last week.

I was at Cahir to visit them. They do not want money and have refused to accept it but they want their lives and dignity. In addition, they want their minds to be at peace. They also want to know that we are going to change things for the better. They want to know that if they have children or grandchildren in that situation it will not be allowed to happen. They are fighting the good fight and carrying the torch to put it all in the past and leave it behind us, moving forward into a new, modern Ireland where such things cannot happen.

During the Oireachtas sub-committee hearings, it became apparent that drafting legislation in this area would be extremely complex and difficult. We know it is and why would it not be? In the course of the public hearings it was noted that there had been much comment on institutional abuse, to which I have referred. However, the sub-committee was informed that much abuse was inter familia. The legislation needs to strike a balance between confidentiality and the current risk to children and vulnerable adults. The submissions gave examples of child abuse. It appears that during the debates in 1996 it was expected that some form of mandatory reporting of child abuse would be put on a statutory footing in the near future. The Children First guidelines will be put on a statutory footing this year, but after a lapse of 16 years.

The Bill also introduces mandatory reporting. Section 9 of the Offences Against the State (Amendment) Act 1998 places a duty on all persons, rather than a particular specialised group, to report knowledge or suspicions of serious crime. As I said earlier, that is incumbent on all of us at all times wherever we may be. The legislation was introduced following the Omagh bombing and aimed to combat terrorism. However, it criminalised the withholding of information on serious offences, and not just terrorism offences. A serious offence covers serious crime but excludes sexual crimes. The need for section 9 along with a number of other sections in the Offences Against the State (Amendment) Act 1998 is revised annually by the Oireachtas. As recently as last week, I spoke on the Bill and voted for it. Unfortunately, despite the 1998 ceasefire, we still have a threat from the Real IRA and other groups like that, including some loyalist terrorists as well.

The use of the Offences Against State Act was not used as commonly as we were led to believe. Up to June 2011, 63 people had been charged under the Act; 117 up to June 2010; 137 up to May 2009; and 115 up to June 2008. There was a wide degree of variance, but it was not over used, although that was the worry when the legislation was introduced.

In publishing this Bill, the Minister, Deputy Shatter, stated that the Cloyne and Ryan reports clearly demonstrated the need to strengthen our law in regard to the disclosure of information concerning offences against children. It is not acceptable that there can be a cloak of secrecy surrounding such offences or offences against other vulnerable persons. The term "other vulnerable persons" is wide-ranging and it is important for us to understand all the nuances of human frailties and how people can become vulnerable. It is not only by sexual abuse.

While much of the media attention concerning child abuse focused on abuse by the clergy, it is important to note that national statistics from the Rape Crisis Network Ireland show that almost 80% - a startling figure - of childhood sexual abuse victims were abused by someone known to them, such as immediate family members, relatives or family friends. Some 12% were abused by those in authority, that is, teachers, sports coaches or priests. Some 3% were abused by strangers and 5% by others. Therefore 12% were abused by those in authority, although 0.01% would be too much.

We need to get back to basics and reality, however, and so do the media. We must understand that we cannot tar everyone with the same brush, including those great institutions and bastions of power that controlled so much in Ireland. We now have the Minister for Education and Skills trying to take the Catholic Church out of education altogether, but the education system would be a far poorer place without it. We must never forget the work done by the Roman Catholic Church. I know the Minister of State, Deputy Perry, appreciates that, but we cannot have these side-swipes and below-the-belt attacks to try to banish all these people. I am tired of saying that I have worked with reverend sisters and other religious in providing the Ashling Centre and now also with a drug misuse centre in my own county. They are visionary and well educated, as well as knowing what they want to do and how to get there. They are outstanding motivators because they do not have the distractions of family life. Those figures are worth reflecting on and we cannot say often enough that people should acknowledge that.

It is no harm to correct or abolish old, outdated language in legislation. I am concerned, however, about some of the proposed sentences in the Bill. I believe that sentences should be very strong, in addition to having support for whistle-blowers. There should be no hiding place for anyone who abuses children or vulnerable adults. I am concerned about the proposed term of five years' imprisonment because I do not believe enough rehabilitation takes place there.

There is a pilot project in Nenagh which operates a restorative justice programme. The justice system is not worth its salt if it does not involve restorative justice to try to correct offenders and make them better people. They should obviously have remorse for what they have done. When anyone is convicted of an offence, the remorse will always stay with them. After serving their sentences, however, they are free people again. Nonetheless, it is important that they emerge from detention as better people, able to live life to the full and enhance their communities in so doing.

A couple of weeks ago during the leaving certificate examinations, I saw the difficulties and pressures facing students, including those arising as a result of modern technology. During the last Dáil, several companies attended committees and tried to sell us ways of restricting access to certain websites for those under 18 years of age. I am as guilty as anyone in terms of allowing my eight children access to all types of facilities. We did not have those types of distractions or pressures. I sat my examinations in 1976, from which I was probably collected by my parents or got the bus or cycled home. If I did not do well in an examination nobody except, perhaps, one or two other students knew that. I probably told my parents when I got home. However, now when a student does not do well in an examination, every student in the school knows about it, as do students in the neighbouring schools, following which the student goes into "meltdown". While I know that these devices are not permitted in the examination halls, once finished their examinations the students are on them texting and on Facebook. There is a great deal of cyber bullying going on and we need to address it. It is an offence against young and old, in particular young people. Many elderly people are also abused by way of mobile phone. It is fortunate perhaps that many people over 60 or 70 years of age do not have a mobile phone. Many of them do not even have a landline. Perhaps, they are better off not having one. They will probably have a better quality of life as a result. Perhaps the Acting Chairman would indicate how much time I have remaining.

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