Paschal Donohoe (Dublin Central, Fine Gael)

I welcome the Minister, Deputy Quinn, to the House for this debate.

I recall clearly the time of day and circumstances in which I met the three people who came to me and told me they had been abused. I also recall the discussion I had with them as they did their best to describe to me the horror inflicted upon them and the impact it had on their lives. Those of us who have had the experience of engaging with survivors of this darkest period in our history could not help but be touched by their experiences and could not be anything less than humbled by the manner in which so many of them have endured their experiences and gone on to achieve so much, despite what was inflicted upon them in the past.

A number of years ago, I visited an institution which was previously an environment within which abuse and deprivation was inflicted upon children resident therein. I recall walking through long corridors, off which there were small rooms in which there were tiny beds stacked side by side. These were the rooms in which many children were abused and endured experiences which many of us cannot comprehend. Having met with survivors of abuse and visited an environment in which this abuse was inflicted upon people, I was interested in the proposals of the previous Government and in the work this Government is doing on how we respond to this issue, what we can do to ensure we reflect the horror of society at what happened and to recognise the diverse needs of the people with us now who endured these experiences.

I would like to make four points in regard to this Bill, some of which were touched on by other speakers in this House and by the Minister in his Second Stage speech, which I had an opportunity to read earlier. The first is an issue acknowledged by the Minister in terms of the process being created in the Bill focusing on people who have already engaged with an extensive redress procedure. As I understand it, this new process will be aimed at people who have already completed the redress process. However, an issue arises in respect of people who have not participated in that process. I know from discussing Bills like this in the past that a huge amount of work and publicity was put into raising the profile of what went on in the past to ensure everyone whose lives were touched by it had an opportunity to participate in the redress process. However, if people who did not participate in that process for whatever reason come forward we should do what we can to accommodate them and respond to their needs.

The Minister made the fair point that we need to use the money we have, which is a large amount, in the best way possible, which I understand. He also indicated that it would be a matter for the board of the new organisation created under this legislation to consider how it might respond to people who come forward, depending on the amount of money remaining. Given that the number of people who may come forward will, I hope, be small in comparison to the number who have already come forward, I would urge the Minister to ensure everything possible is done to meet their needs. We owe it to them to do so. I acknowledge there was a great deal of activity at home and abroad to ensure everyone was aware of the redress process. However, I do not want us to end up in a situation whereby any group of people or individual is excluded. They have gone through so much as a consequence of the State not exercising its duty of care and I do not want to see this compounded by their not being able to access the new system being created in the Bill.

This brings me to my next point, on the ease of access to the new system being established. The people involved in establishing and working on the board will do all they can to ensure people applying for services to be funded can do so easily through a system that is not too cumbersome. However, I am conscious that while no State organisation has been established with the objective to come up with difficult processes and forms we have many such forms and processes. It is very important that when this is up and running it should be well run and it should be easy for people to access funding for services to which they may be entitled. I do not want to see the three people I have met who have been touched by this having to fill out forms and go through processes which are cumbersome and too difficult when applying for funding for services to which they are entitled. We must avoid this.

As the Bill goes through the House will the Minister clarify the stance of the new organisation on means testing? The Bill makes reference to the circumstances of an individual and the hardship endured. We owe it to them to ensure the services funded by the scheme are open and available to everybody. In my short experience of dealing with this issue and meeting people affected by it, unfortunately they do not have such a level of means that the availability of this would not matter to them. The services being funded will make a real difference to the lives of those accessing the scheme being established by the Government. I would be very reluctant for these services to be means tested given where the funding is coming from, what these people have gone through and the impact these services could have on their lives. They have gone through enough. We know where the money is coming from and we should make it as easy as possible for people to access it and make as little reference as possible to their means.

The next point I want to consider is whether funding or grants should be provided for services or directly allocated to individuals. Various views have been expressed on this and those accessing the scheme will have already gone through the redress procedure. Even at this stage I have some unease with telling an individual who has gone through this that funding is being refused because what it was requested for does not meet the prescribed services laid out in the Bill or the State does not believe it is appropriate that the money is spent in a particular way. I urge those who will run the fund to be imaginative always and take into account the needs of those they meet.

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