Eamon Gilmore (Dún Laoghaire, Labour)

I agree with the Deputy that what we saw and what was reported in the documentary was another horrific episode in the failure of senior figures in the Catholic Church to protect children and report the abuse and rape of children. The rape or abuse of a child is a crime, and it was a crime then. The place for crimes to be investigated, prosecuted and dealt with is in the courts, and by gardaí. I do not believe there is a parallel system of law which deals with these matters. Anybody who has or had knowledge about the rape or abuse of a child has or had a duty to report it to the authorities. Whatever may be said about it occurring in 1975, whatever number of years ago and in whatever context, there have been plenty of opportunities since for the information on the abuse and rape of those children to be brought to the attention of the Garda and the matters which were known to be reported, not least when the case of Fr. Brendan Smyth who was at the centre of it came to public attention. The Deputy will recall, as far as the political response to the issue at the time was concerned, that that particular episode caused the collapse of a Government and the establishment of a new one.

As far as the Government is concerned, we are putting in place much stronger rules and regulations in respect of responsibility to children. The draft children first Bill, published by the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs last week, will place a statutory obligation on organisations and named individuals to report information on abuse or significant neglect to the HSE, whether it occurs in the organisation or elsewhere. The purpose of the Bill is to protect the child about whom there is a concern and protect other children in the community from an abuser who may be abusing multiple children. The legislation will require a priest, as a pastoral member of a religious organisation, to report concerns about abuse directly to the HSE. In addition, the Minister for Justice and Equality has published legislation which provides for the withholding of information on sexual abuse to be deemed a criminal offence.

As far as the Deputy's questions about Cardinal Brady are concerned, I have always believed in the separation of church and State. It is the job of the Government and the State to enact our laws and ensure they apply to everybody, whether they belong to a church or not, but it is my own personal view that anybody who did not deal with the scale of the abuse we have seen in this case should not hold a position of authority.

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