Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)

The State, the Department of Social Protection and MABS cannot engage in detail in everything, but what we can do is work to a better framework. Perhaps the person is semi-permanently in difficulty and that, hopefully, he or she will eventually get work. I do not know what the circumstances are. However, if he or she is two years in this process, perhaps he or she needs a better long-term process. That is one of things which is being worked on. Unfortunately, it is a much slower process from a legal point of view than any of us involved in government would like but then our Constitution is legally very detailed, very prescriptive and very strong on property rights, so the lender has many rights in regard to the mortgage.

If the Deputy gives me the details, I will ask the people in the Central Bank about it because with my Department paying the mortgage interest supplement, why should that individual be harassed in the manner he described? If our hardworking taxpayers' money is going to pay the mortgage interest supplement, why is that institution apparently in breach of the code of conduct in regard to mortgage arrears? It might be interesting if we try to explore why that has happened.

It goes to show that banks believe they can get large volumes of money, through the mortgage interest supplement, without any work being done by them. It is €50 million, on which there are a lot of calls, for 18,000 people. However, it was always meant to be short term. Given the way the difficulties in regard to mortgages have evolved, we need other mechanisms as well as the mechanism of the Department of Social Protection. I will keep this area under review. There seems to be an automatic expectation on the part of banks and lenders that the Department of Social Protection will pay out money willy-nilly without ever demanding that they go through the code in detail. This is what we are trying to do so that we can get better value for the many tens of millions of taxpayers' money. We must explore many questions about how the code operates in respect of mortgage interest supplement. Deputies should bear in mind that community welfare officers, CWOs, who take part in this matter, joined the Department in recent times. We have been able to get a great deal of regional and county data on the number of mortgages that are in difficulty and being assisted. These data have been published in newspapers.

Although lenders may be robust when seeking their money, they must engage and treat people with dignity. Most lenders assert that they have structures in place in this regard. The supplement of €50 million to them is a valuable resource. If they want it, they must engage with borrowers. I am not satisfied that the existing relationship has served the general interests of people, specifically borrowers, well, particularly in the type of cases cited by Deputy Ó Snodaigh. In those cases, lenders who have been paid mortgage interest supplement by the State are not responding appropriately. The Deputy's examples show that this matter must be re-examined.

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