Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)

I am pleased to have an opportunity to speak to the Bill. I was amused by Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív's expression of horror, shock and surprise at the things the Minister was allegedly setting out to do to decimate the entire welfare system, leaving people high and dry, suffering and in poverty. Creating confusion for the people in looking for Dingle is one thing; adding a "v" to the Irish alphabet is another, but pretending not to know about how we arrived at our current position is stretching the imagination, even for some of those on the far side of the House. We should always remember that those in receipt of social welfare payments do not become eligible for such payments deliberately. There is a popular myth that people deliberately wish to be unemployed and apply for a social welfare payment. That is not so. I am amazed at the experiences in other parts of the country because – I speak as a former incumbent of the Department – I have not seen the evidence of the ready availability of payments that others have seen and it is not because I do not engage with my constituents, because I do. There is great folklore, as well as a great many urban and rural myths, most of which are grossly inaccurate.

One of the issues that has created a serious problem in terms of the burden placed on the social welfare system is the lack of housing. The previous Administration decided to dismantle the housing system over a period of many years. There was a time when people on low to middle incomes could rely on the availability of local authority houses as starter homes. They paid differential rent which gave them security. It was a simple system which worked very well and small and large families were accommodated. Then a change was introduced. The powers-that-be decided that there would be no more local authority houses built, or if there were, they would be difficult to obtain. As a result we have reached a point where there are approximately 100,000 families on local authority housing lists. A further 10,000 families have not been allowed onto the lists because of the intricate application forms that have been filled in. As a result, those who find themselves in such a predicament are vulnerable. When they receive their social welfare payments and having paid their rent, there is very little left. I have dealt with as many such cases as anyone else in the House.

The Minister is in a difficult position and I have the utmost sympathy for her. There was a splurge of spending that continued uninterrupted for 15 years, during which time elections were bought on a regular basis by the amount of money that could be forked out beforehand. I recall one election where cheques appeared to every parent in the country in respect of child benefit in order to sweeten the electorate for the election. Such nonsense has eventually come home to roost and has created awful problems. It has created problems for those who now must take responsibility to ensure there is some payment available to those who find themselves in that position.

In all the cases I have dealt with over the years, single parents themselves want to go to work. They do not need any encouragement. They wish to have independence and the independence of a job is all they require. They want to go back to education and try to do so, and in most cases they do. However, the position is getting tighter now and it is more difficult to do that. I have the utmost sympathy for those who find themselves in that particularly difficult position.

In times of significant financial stringency and stress, the tendency is for everybody to look around and say everybody else must suffer. He or she must cut, the person to whom they are speaking must cut, and everybody else must suffer a little more. That is fine, and I understand it. That is a human reaction. However, there are those who are extremely vulnerable in society at present who must watch every cent. No doubt there are those who are not in receipt of a social welfare payment who are in the same position and we must accept that, but the financial situation and the situation in respect of resources that must be spread wider and thinner is the problem. There will be such a situation until such time as there is some kind of economic recovery in terms of growth and a return to better times. All we can do in the meantime is hold out the hand of friendship and the sympathetic ear and be there to recognise and examine the cases for those who find themselves in a difficult position. There is no sense whatever in giving the impression we do not hear their voices, which is a dangerous place to go.

Those of us who were here in past stringent times learned a great deal during that period. What we learned most was the need to keep society on board. We need, in particular, to keep the vulnerable in society on board and to indicate clearly that we understand their position and do not enjoy a situation whereby persons receive reductions in their payments. By and large, I can understand the kind of measures the Minister has to take and I accept them. A short simple answer is, there is no money. That is a sad situation. That did not come about over one year's negligence. It came about over several years' continuation in the same direction with the result the economy has imploded and now, unfortunately, everybody must pay.

Incidentally, somebody mentioned earlier the self-employed do not qualify for any payment. That is not true. In fact, Deputy Ó Cuív spoke about it. He should know. I recall, when I had some responsibility in that Department, changing the position so that the self-employed, instead of having to show a P45 or income details for the previous 12 months, merely had to show it for the past three, four or five weeks because it was clear the income the person received the previous year was gone and there was no sense in assessing as means against the individual what he or she had earned in the previous year, and that was done. Lo and behold, despite the good times, those who came after decided to change that back again. The innocence expressed on the Opposition side of the House a few minutes ago about some of what is now happening is well feigned because some of those changes took place in the not so distant past when individuals on the Opposition side of the House had particular responsibility.

I do not have time to go into the area of mortgage and rent support. It is a significant problem at present. It is a considerable administrative problem as well. It is most repetitive and difficult to administer. It is difficult to qualify for. Rent support is brought about simply because another Department over a long number of years failed to fulfil its obligations by providing housing for those who could not provide houses for themselves out of their own resources.

I will finish on a matter that has caused many of us problems, that is, the difficulty now arising which some of us flagged several years ago when we saw the downturn coming in the economy and we pointed out to the then Minister that it was time to transfer more staff from other Departments into the Department of Social Protection to ensure applications were processed. One must remember the time involved in processing applications is lengthened considerably by having to go back over the same process repeatedly, which often is what happens in almost everything those in that income bracket now must face. That is sad, but that it is the way it is.

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