Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)

I am glad to have an opportunity to speak on this important watershed issue in Irish politics and economics. I will not take the advice of my colleague across the House to heed the words of Paul Krugman or of any other world expert. This is one for us. The ordinary people of this country must come to a judgment on this matter. Do we want to look to the future alone and with a tear in our eye, or be resolute, take our responsibilities seriously, stand up and be counted, assert ourselves as real members of the European Union and take our place proudly without fear or favour among the nations of the European Union? Do we want to ape those who have made mistakes and take the advice of people who followed those who were wrong, and there were many of them?

There are as many diverse economic opinions as there are blades of grass in Croke Park. For the last ten years we have been entertained by those who said we were going great and that this was the way to go. They said everything was easy and that we were making a bag of money. They said it was a great time to be here and we should take these opportunities. No one wanted to hear reality. This is reality. This is real time. We face it in the clear knowledge that the decision we take will have a serious impact on where we go in the future.

We talk about austerity as though it were an end in itself. It is not. It is a means to an end and it must be a means to recovery. There is no sense in spending more money if we are still sliding down the tunnel. In 1977, economic experts decided that we needed economic stimulus and to spend more money and generate consumer demand. That is what the people voted for, because it was easy. We must get away from easy. This is not about easy. This is about responsibility. The most important thing about the 1977 stimulus package was that within 18 months the country was broke. People seem to have forgotten that we have not repaid that debt.

We are paying it back and will still be paying it back ad infinitum. The only thing that happened in the intervening years was, particularly in regard to property - as property prices imploded - that inflation took control and relative to our borrowings our economic growth overtook it and they were that much less. However, it has not gone away. Like everyone else in this House I have dealt with as many serious debt situations as anyone in Europe. There is a golden rule that when one owes money that one must face the reality in the first instance and accept that it is a fact. I do not care who did it. It is easy for us on this side of the House to say we know who is responsible but there is no sense in trying to pretend that what happened did not happen under the auspices, approval and aegis of the agencies in this country. I refer to the Central Bank, the Financial Regulator, the Department of Finance and others. That carries the sovereign stamp and when we say we will not pay and that we will walk away, what we are saying is that our stamp means nothing in the future. We do not mean what we say. We must accept responsibility for whatever has happened. We must do that as a people. If we do not do so, although I am not an expert, I predict serious problems in future if we go down the road of pretending that someone somewhere is going to be very nice to us, will lift us up by our bootstraps, pat us on the head, hose us down and say "Come on, are you not Irish? Don't we love you all and sure we could not leave you out there in the cold." This is the real world. This is real time.

Austerity is not an end; it is a means to economic recovery. It is not forever, nor should it be, but there must be a recognition and realisation that we could not continue the way we were. If anyone in this House is suggesting – Professor Krugman or anyone else – that we should continue the way we were and spend money the way we did for the past ten or 15 years and think we are going to recover, they should think again. One of the solutions that has been put forward from the United States – by Professor Krugman – is that full integration of economic and fiscal policy is the only way it could work. They have that in the United States and let us look at what happened there. Some of the banks did not work out all that well and the economy is heavily borrowed.

I do not think we need to take advice from anybody. We must judge it for ourselves. The people in this country who are about to vote in the referendum must judge it for themselves. What they must consider is what is the safest bet if in doubt on this occasion. It used to be said in previous referenda that if in doubt one should vote "No". The reverse is the case this time. If there is any doubt people must vote "Yes" in their own interest because it is in the interest of the people of this country that they take the right decision. It is not for politicians to make the decision for them. My colleague across the House, Deputy Mac Lochlainn, is correct; we must let the people decide. It is now their turn to take responsibility and they must remember that the result will be on their heads. On our heads will be the result as well. If the people of this country make the wrong decision we will all pay for that too.

I would love to be able to blame Fianna Fáil for where we are but the fact is that whatever happened got some approval from the people. People voted for it. The reason they voted for it is because people vote for something that sounds easy. Politically, it is a great thing to do. They would be fools not to, on the basis that the rewards would be to the people. However, the rewards were not to the people; the cost was to the people. We are paying for it, which is a sad thing. In my time in this House – I am here a couple of years – I saw all of that happen. I am ashamed to say that I was unable to convince anyone as to what might happen, and it happened. Our worst fears were realised.

People have asked why the Lisbon Agenda did not succeed. It was said that low interest rates were the cause of the problem. They were not. There was plenty of scope to introduce credit controls, as is the case now. Interest rates are low now but there is no difficulty with them since recognition dawned. Economic lunacy was what happened. There is nothing better than low interest rates to generate employment and economic growth, but one must put them to the right use. Unfortunately, in this country we decided to spend the money. We were supposed to be the richest country in the world. Does the Acting Chairman, Deputy Mathews, remember that? We might have been the richest country in the world but we put our money into property. One could ask where it is now. The property has devalued so we are no longer the richest country in the world. I appeal to the people in this country, in the interests of the country and of future generations to vote "Yes".

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