Maureen O'Sullivan (Dublin Central, Independent)

I wish to share time with several Independent Deputies. I understand the Acting Chairman has the list. It is important that Deputy Clare Daly has introduced this Bill on the issue of abortion or termination of pregnancy and that it is being discussed today in advance of the publication of the report of the expert group set up by the Government. Since we are a signatory to the European Convention on Human Rights, I believe the Government is obliged to remedy any breaches of it. I realise other arguments have been put forward in this regard. It will be interesting to see the findings of the expert group. I believe a timeframe has been set.

It is easy to suggest that we should wait for the expert group but we have been waiting for a long time and not only for this group. Let us consider the history of this matter in the country. It has been repeatedly delayed, leading to referendums, Supreme Court cases, various working groups and a Green Paper. There was an all-party Oireachtas group set up in November 2000. It published its report after 12 months of submissions and deliberations but failed to reach a consensus. A fifth referendum was held in 2002 and it brought about the current position. There is a good deal of divergent opinion and that is likely to continue.

I am not keen on the polarisation by groups along the lines of pro-choice and pro-life because the issue is not black and white. I wonder about the significance of some of the arguments these groups bring forward in respect of women who find themselves in the situation of having to travel to England or elsewhere to terminate a pregnancy. We know such a decision is rarely if ever taken lightly and I am mindful that there are serious consequences, including mental, emotional, psychological and physical consequences. There is no doubt these consequences are compounded by having to travel outside the country. The recent letters, accounts and testimonies in The Irish Times bore witness to these consequences.

I listened to some of the contributions last night and today. I cannot but be struck by the speeches on various sides of the House from Members to the effect that they support the idea behind the Bill but they will not vote for it because it does not go far enough. This will make for interesting debate when the review group publishes its findings and any proposed resolutions.

Like many others, I do not agree with abortion on demand and I do not like the idea of abortion being used as a form of contraception. However, there are times when a termination is needed and this reality must be recognised. It would be great if no woman had to make that decision but that is not the case in the real world. Even while we are debating the matter, some women are making the journey out of the country because they have made a decision to have a termination.

If victims of rape and children who are pregnant through incest make the decision to have a termination, then it should be respected. The case of where there is a real and substantial threat to the life of a pregnant woman is one such situation. I have one concern about the idea of involving a psychiatrist and a psychologist. This is derived from my involvement with mental health issues and the varying roles of psychiatrists in forced electroconvulsive therapy, ECT, treatment. I have some doubts about their role in any decisions. Any decision should be made in a non-judgmental situation with a doctor. This is the way forward. I hope that women from lower socioeconomic groups will not be discriminated against because of this provision.

I knew a woman some years ago who became pregnant on her fourth child and who developed a life-threatening illness. The medical advice was for a termination. She made the decision not to have the termination. The baby lived and she lost her life because she did not have the treatment in time. That decision should be protected in law as well. Whether a termination goes ahead or a woman continues with her pregnancy, the decision should be covered in law. The Bill also covers those who object to having to perform the procedure. The matter is well covered. No one would be placed under a duty to participate, and provisions are in place for this. While discussing abortion we should discuss the role of the father as well.

Although I support the Bill I am not in favour of abortion on demand and I dislike the way this issue has been hijacked by certain groups. The Bill has a narrow focus for a particular situation regardless of the legal and medical point scoring. I accept that maternity services in this country are excellent and it is the safest place to have a baby. However, the situation addressed by the Bill does arise and such a decision must be protected in law.

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