Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)

I am delighted to be able to comment tonight on the Social Welfare and Pensions Bill 2012 and I wish the Minister well on her first year in office. I worked with her in committee for the four years of the previous Government and it is a significant change for her to go from Opposition spokesperson to Minister. She has reformed some aspects of the Department, and she has a certain understanding of these issues as she is a woman and was in opposition for so many years. I thank her for the effort being made on certain new schemes and some bold measures she is taking on. I ask her to stand up for herself and not be afraid of Fine Gael attacks from the likes of Deputy Charles Flanagan, who mentioned that she must have a death wish for the Government. I know she has no death wish and wants to get her policies implemented. I know she has some very good officials working hard in the Department. I do not know why the Acting Chairman finds that funny as he is from south Tipperary as well.

The Minister has a very complex Department with a significant budget. There are pressures arising from the representatives of the troika being in town today but the Department needs a root and branch review. There should be an evaluation of where funds are going. We have seen headlines in the newspapers regarding social welfare fraud, and there is some, but I would love to know its extent. It is easy to say it is there but we can compare that fraud with the blackguarding and criminality that was evident in banks and institutions of the State. Nobody has been arraigned or brought before any court arising from those actions. There is no sign of it either and I know how frustrated the Minister and her colleague, Deputy Rabbitte, are about that. I was frustrated with the last Government in that respect also. The issue sticks in the craw of people, as certain individuals seem to be able to laugh all the way to the bank; they are laughing from inside the banks and abroad as well. We can only consider how people are pursued for social welfare fraud from such a perspective, and it is very hard for people to stomach it. The problem must be tackled with an eye to fairness, equity and respect, and I wish the Minister well in that regard.

I urge caution, particularly with regard to community employment, CE, schemes, of which I am a passionate supporter. I know the Minister did her best in Cabinet to fight off the attacks on such schemes but although she promised a review, it is not happening. We are still in the wilderness and facing a 66% cut in training budgets. We cannot survive that. I have said privately and publicly that we could survive with half the funding and we would take a 30% cut. We cannot take a 66% cut as volunteer bodies cannot afford to keep going. They cannot keep the doors open, paying insurance and everything else, with that cut.

I seek progress on the issue of PRSI for the self-employed. We need those people to stay in business, although many have already gone out of business. We have heard bad stories of people left with bad tastes left in their mouths because they paid PRSI, taxes and VAT in good times while looking after their staff, which most people involved in small businesses do. They work very close and have tight-knit operations. When everything went belly-up, everybody got some support except those people who created jobs; these are the innovators, the shakers and the makers and without them we will not be able to revive the country. We must consider this issue seriously. Those people will pay into a system to provide for a rainy day and would have had to do so anyway. They have now lost whatever pensions or savings they had and have been left penniless and destitute. Banks, the Revenue Commissioners and sheriffs are persecuting them, which is deplorable. We must examine the matter. We have a new poor, and the people I described comprise it, along with small farmers and others.

Rent supplement must be reconsidered, and local authorities which provide housing would be more in touch with that issue. The system is widely abused and we saw for years that when the payment was increased, rents were also increased. People are now being told to negotiate rents with landlords, which is fair enough, although it is not easy if the money is not there. Sometimes it cannot be done and some landlords may tell a tenant to get lost or demand that the balance be paid in cash out of meagre social welfare payments. There is fraud ongoing in that respect. Some of these people are not easy to handle or deal with as they are above and beyond ordinary people, who may be nervous and intimidated because they may be moved from their house and not have a home for their children.

I have already mentioned how the pension funds seem to be raided for everything. I know the National Pensions Reserve Fund was seriously raided for the so-called bailout, which was more of a clean-out at the time. I was told this morning there was a statement on Tipperary radio that we would raid the pension fund in order to fit water meters but I was told that Siemens offered to fit those meters free 18 months or two years ago. I am not saying there are any free lunches and nor would I expect any but I would like a thorough evaluation of how we can gain value for money with a competitive process for people fitting those meters. A sister-in-law of mine was on the television news tonight in connection with a story about a group scheme in Monaghan, where meters were bought for €60 and fitted for €100. How can we be told the cost will be closer to €400?

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