Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)

I am glad to have an opportunity to speak on this issue although it is not one that can be covered adequately in ten minutes. In particular, those of us who have been members of local authorities have lots of experiences and comparisons to make.

It is a time of sadness for all of us. It is sad when people who are elected to public office find themselves, for one reason or another, in a position in which they succumb to temptation. That is not the way it is supposed to work. I do not want to be sanctimonious, judgmental or condemnatory because that is not the way any human being should be. If somebody falls off the rails for one reason or another and does something wrong, he or she must pay a price. It does not necessarily follow that the rest of society can mount the high pinnacle of moral rectitude and sanctimoniously condemn everybody in sight, claiming this is a symptom of political society and everything is rotten in the state of Denmark etc. I do not accept that notion.

What happened was wrong. It was obvious that investigations, reports and issues that were raised throughout the years should have been investigated by the authorities at the time. Actions taken and suspicions raised should have been followed up, keeping in mind that people have the right to be judged innocent until opinion is formed to the contrary. We live in a world of experts and there is none more so than those involved in planning, regional or spatial strategy, among whom are experts to beat the band. Where we went wrong I do not know but with all the expertise around surely we should have been able to come to some kind of conclusion as to how to proceed.

All my life I have held the view that the first public representatives were people of property, with independent means. They were incapable of being the subject of bribery or corruption because they had independent means. That was at a time when public representatives were not paid at all. That is the way it was. Even on this island people with property had three or four votes, known as the franchise vote. All that has changed with the passage of time and with it should have come some means of ensuring that those people who may be vulnerable or in financial difficulty do not find themselves under pressure and subject to harassment of a financial or verbal nature when making decisions for which they have statutory responsibility. It is a serious decision. I have spoken about this previously. Who knows who sat around a table, making statutory decisions, making up one's mind to do the right thing and not knowing one was sitting beside someone with a different reason for coming to the same conclusion? We are dammed if we do and dammed if we do not. One could vote to achieve what one thought was the correct result and, by virtue of a series of accidents, could be deemed to be corrupt for no other reason than doing what one thought was right.

I agree with my colleague Deputy Sean Ó Fearghaíl. We were both members of the same local authority for a number of years. In so far as we could, we watched each other to make sure someone did not step over the line. It is difficult but that is how it happens. Consensus is dangerous in this situation. As a member of a local authority, I have voted against all my colleagues because I thought I was doing the right thing. In the aftermath, it may have been for the right reasons but at the time one was made to feel one was doing something unpatriotic and something that was not in the national interest even though one thought it was at the time. I have done that and I know Deputy Ó Fearghaíl has done the same. I am not so sure people are equipped to stand on the high moral ground and say that someone did wrong. It is always easy to come to that conclusion with the benefit of hindsight.

I was very disappointed with the contribution of Deputy Gerry Adams, who referred to the foundation of the State. He said politicians in this jurisdiction had let down the people and that, after the foundation of the State, they had turned their backs on the people, grown apart and lost the ideals that originally motivated them. As we all know, the founder of the party Deputy Adams represents was also the founder of my party. There were other issues at the foundation of the State that had a serious negative impact on the country. This includes not going along with the wishes of the majority of the people on issues that were put to the people. It took a very long time for people to recognise that. There is no use in presuming or proclaiming that everyone was corrupt but that cleanliness has now arisen and is here in abundance.

I am so sorry that a major party has fallen by the wayside in the way Fianna Fáil has been punished by the people. I genuinely mean that. It is a salutary lesson for everyone in this House. It may have worked on a number of occasions but it did not work last time. The people summarily punished the party for what they saw being done to the country. I say that with no glee and it will happen again. Those who readily lead people astray and mislead them by pretending that following their philosophy will be better will be visited in the future. There will be disastrous consequences for those who promote those ideologies.

What element of society has not had to undergo a revision in the past 20 years? If there was so-called endemic corruption in politics, where else was it? Right across Europe, there are suspicions about the media. In the adjoining jurisdiction, I heard someone yesterday morning say he could anticipate the result of the tribunal in this country. He could look closer to home because there are a fair few investigations under way. Over the past ten or 15 years we have had revisions in the church, priests, bishops, lawyers, the legal profession, the teaching profession and the public service. Maybe we need a revision and we need to step back and see where we have gone. Now is the time to do it and it should affect everyone.

The people are the ultimate arbiters and the people must examine their consciences. It is easy for me to blame Fianna Fáil, my party's political opponents, but the people approved of what they did over the course of three general elections in 15 years. If there was any doubt about it, those who want to divest themselves of responsibility throughout the community include the Independents on the Opposition benches who signed up to agreements with the previous Government. The question was asked not once but three times. In 1997, 2002 and 2007, when it was clear to all and sundry that the country was flat broke in more ways than one, the people supported the status quo of Fianna Fáil with the Independents. I do not blame Fianna Fáil for that. It is guilty, without doubt, but many other people are also guilty. Those people should ask themselves serious questions.

Sad as this is for the country, it may well be a watershed and a reminder that there should be a small bit of humility. We are not all experts and occasionally mistakes are made. Some people pay for the mistakes and others do not.

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