Seán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)

Yes. It is the level of saving that will be made on a permanent basis. All organisations must review their pay and pensions bills. I will not engage in a debate on there not being any new liability because people are retiring. However, pay and pension costs need to be addressed. The Minister stated that the pay bill in 2008 was €17.5 billion and the pension bill was €2.1 billion, which gives us a total of €19.6 billion and that the pay bill at the end of 2015 will be €3.5 billion less, bringing it to €14 billion. However, the pension bill will have increased by €1 billion to €3.1 billion. Most companies record pay and pension expenses in their accounts. They do not try to pretend they are not connected because they are to some extent.

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