Alex White (Dublin South, Labour)

I will take five minutes and the remainder of the time can be divided among those who are due to follow me.

I agree with Deputy Thomas Pringle that this has been an extremely interesting debate which has given Members the opportunity to discuss the various issues relating to both the economic situation across Europe and the fiscal compact treaty which we will, of course, be debating in the coming months. It is important, however, to remind ourselves of what we are being asked to do in respect of the legislation before the House. As the Minister pointed out and Members are aware, we are being asked to give our consent - nothing more - to the implementation of amendments to the Greek loan facility already in existence. In saying this, I am not stating our consent is not worthy of consideration.

I am fundamentally of the view that this is an issue of solidarity and that this debate ought to centre on the necessity for and importance of solidarity expressed by Ireland to a fellow member state of the European Union and the eurozone. I agree to a large extent with what Deputy Stephen Donnelly stated about the general approach which should be taken to this matter. If I understood him correctly, he made the point that it was a pity that there appeared to be so much moralising taking place - there has been a certain amount of it in this debate - across Europe in respect of the situation in Greece and other countries. The finger is being pointed at countries because they are supposed, as a result of some historic considerations, not to be able to manage their own affairs. Countries are also being accused of acting in a profligate way at all times and it has been stated they do not understand financial or economic management. In parts, Deputy Michael McGrath's contribution smacked of being a lecture. Giving a lecture to the Greeks does not reflect, in any shape or form, where we stand.

I do not believe people in this House or elsewhere should engage in arrogant posturing which, in some quarters, is becoming part of the debate on the situation in Greece. Unfortunately, as Deputy Stephen Donnelly or another Member indicated, this attitude of finger-pointing is reflected at high levels throughout Europe. It is fair to state the difficulties being experienced in Greece are attributable, perhaps in considerable part, to domestic developments. However, they are also a feature of the crisis at the heart of the eurozone project and what happened during the past eight to ten years. Very serious macroeconomic and other imbalances have emerged in Europe. I am not making excuses for particular forms of conduct, whether in respect of the payment of taxes or otherwise, in certain countries. The serious and major imbalances to which I refer have emerged at the very heart of the eurozone project and an attempt is being made - perhaps belatedly - to address them. It is not, however, merely a case of wagging the finger of blame at one country simply because it seems to be the one which is in the eye of the storm. I am not seeking to imply that reforms are not necessary.

The post-colonial comparative analysis in which Deputy Thomas Pringle engaged of the situation in Greece may have a great deal going for it. The Deputy recounted the history of that country and referred to the reasons for people's unwillingness to pay taxes, etc. When he was speaking, I could not avoid thinking there might perhaps be a basis for believing there is an element of this in our own political culture and that we need to realise and understand - I do not wish to be accused of wagging the finger at anyone in this regard - that there is a need to pay for public services. Public services must be paid for and there are not that many ways of doing this other than through the payment of taxes which sometimes include income or property taxes. We should be clear that in order to provide public and local services, we may need to levy property taxes. I wonder, however, if we have such support in all quarters.

If I was abroad and looking at Ireland to judge its mood, I might look at the media if I was not Irish. I might also talk to people I know. Ultimately, however, I would look to the Parliament, as no matter what has been said, this Parliament is the democratically elected body which represents the people. Members ranging from Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett to those on the Government side were elected by the people. I would apply this to Greece when considering what has happened there. I know people had to make a choice in that parliament between what was bad and what was catastrophic. I watched events unfolding on television, but the Greek parliamentarians made a choice in their democratically elected parliament. I remember watching politicians from my own European grouping some weeks ago, including a former finance Minister in the PASOK party whose name I cannot remember and which I probably could not pronounce. He was practically in tears, but he understood the choice was between something terrible and something catastrophic. Those politicians made the choice and are entitled to receive the solidarity of this House and the Irish people in what is being proposed. People are entitled to vote as they choose, but I strongly urge Members to recognise that this is an issue of solidarity and support the Greek people at this time.

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