Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)

I thank the Chair for the opportunity to speak on this Scrap and Precious Metal Dealers Bill 2011. I also thank and commend my colleague, Deputy Mattie McGrath, on bringing the Bill before the House, because this is an important issue throughout the country. Deputy Mattie McGrath has presented an excellent Bill and we should all support its proposals. The promotion of Bills such as this demonstrates how Independent Deputies are introducing legislation that deals directly with major issues affecting people's lives and offers constructive solutions. When Deputies bring forward such legislation, we should all try to support them and the sensible solutions they propose. I expect more from the Minister in this regard. If there are issues in this Bill that need tidying and if there are issues of professionalism with regard to its production, the Minister should use the skills and resources of the Department to support the legislation and its principles.

This Bill is an excellent piece of legislation. Having listened to colleagues from all political persuasions here today, it is clear that Deputy McGrath has touched a nerve by raising this issue. I will give a slightly different view from those already expressed on this issue. One of the big issues in this regard in my constituency is the issue of "cash for gold". Many people are concerned about this. I have been approached by jewellers and people in small businesses who are concerned that criminal elements are involved in this area. We must be vigilant in this regard in the context of this debate. This issue has caused fear in many rural and urban communities. The threat to take copper, metals, jewellery, gold or whatever from people's houses has caused significant problems, particularly for senior citizens who have major fears. The Bill deals with these issues.

We must be seen to show strong support for legitimate businesses in this area, as has been mentioned by contributors to this debate. The Bill also offers a solution of which the Minister for Justice and Equality and the Garda seem unaware as yet to a significant problem. If the legislation is supported and passed, it has significant potential to reduce violent crime against people and communities. If the Minister can regulate, supervise and sort out this issue, he can reduce the likelihood of attacks on the elderly and of violent crime in people's homes. He can also reduce the potential number of gun incidents in communities throughout the country. In some of these incidents people have been shot and intimidated in their homes and sometimes victims have overreacted. We must ask whether this legislation provides a solution. I say "Yes", it is part of the solution. It will also help reduce violent crime against senior citizens, particularly those in isolated rural areas. We must consider this seriously when dealing with this legislation.

We must also look more deeply at other questions. We must consider why people have become involved in trading in scrap metals and what is going on in society. First, it appears to be a very easy activity in which to become involved. These people seem to sail in and take the copper, metal or piece of public art very easily. These metals are accessible and they can deal with them quickly. There is also an easy cash flow and money can be made quickly. There is also another agenda. Some sectors of society have contempt for the rest of society and because of their own image are involved in crime. We must look at this broader debate too. We must ask why people are getting involved in this type of crime, but this issue seems to be brushed under the carpet. Some people who are marginalised, extremely disadvantaged and disowned by their communities will become involved in crime.

There is an undercurrent in this debate related to Travellers. Deputy Mattie McGrath spoke about traditional tinsmith Travellers who offered a service to people. The majority of Travellers are not involved in crime, but just get on with their lives. Historically, the first recyclers in this country came from the Traveller community. It was only in the past ten or 15 years that recycling became trendy in the settled community. However, Travellers have a long history in this regard. This section of society with a long tradition of recycling and involvement offers significant potential. Let us get them involved in the industry and let them and us come up with new ideas that can be developed. Many of those in the Traveller community have come forward with constructive economic proposals. We should support them rather than marginalise them.

To return to the legislation, the purpose of the Bill is to implement stricter controls related to the purchasing, selling, trading, consignment selling or transfer for value of precious or scrap metal. The Bill attempts to deal with the situation. There has been an increase in petty crime in this area and we are also aware there have been some incidents of violent crime. The majority of those involved in these crimes seem to get away with it. They operate fast, make their money and get out of town. The robbery at Killester church, which is in my constituency, was mentioned earlier. It is important to highlight these incidents because they affect communities directly. Copper was taken from the senior citizens' complex in Donnycarney.

I wish to speak about the detail of this legislation. Section 3 of the Bill sets out the obligations to be fulfilled by precious metal dealers in obtaining and retaining proof of identity from the sources providing goods to them and in obtaining and retaining records of such transactions. Deputy Mattie McGrath has provided for strong supervision and regulation in this section. The Minister should seriously consider this constructive proposal.

Section 4, which provides for a 30-day waiting period in respect of the removal of goods obtained through consignment, would improve safety and security. I know some of my colleagues have reservations about some aspects of this proposal, but I suggest the broad parameters of section 4 are sensible.

Section 6 sets out the offences and penalties that will accrue to precious metal dealers who fail to comply with the terms of this legislation. Rather than seeing this activity in a negative light, it is important that we consider it positively. If metal dealers are properly supervised and regulated, there is significant potential for job creation in this sector. We need to take this opportunity to allow sections of society that have often been discriminated against and marginalised contribute to the economy.

Section 7 sets out the obligations to be fulfilled by scrap metal dealers in obtaining and retaining proof of identity from the sources providing goods to them. That is very important from a security and safety perspective.

I am strongly supportive of section 9, which provides that all scrap metal dealers must register with the Garda in the course of an investigation into the theft of an item or items of precious metal and may be required to furnish the Garda with the details of items that may be relevant to that investigation. Section 9 is very important.

I encourage professionalism in the Garda Síochána. We need quality professionals in the force. We have seen in recent days that parts of the Garda need to get their act together. The Minister should be conscious of the need for objectivity and professionalism from gardaí as they implement the law of the land. They should act in a professional and impartial way. I will not get into the details of the reason I am saying that. Over the past 12 hours, many people expressed have major concerns about what has been seen to be going on in relation to a number of serious issues.

I mentioned that section 9 is important. Public servants who are responsible for implementing the law of the land should do so in a fair way. The Garda needs to have the confidence of scrap metal dealers and their staff. We have to ensure they are protected as well.

It is important to commend those who have come up with ideas. I was interested to hear Deputy McHugh's proposal, which related to cables under the sea. I had never heard about that aspect of the matter before. We should all support the proposal because it has obvious potential for creating jobs and developing the whole theme of this debate.

Section 10 sets out the offences and penalties that will accrue to precious metal dealers who fail to comply with the terms of this legislation. It is important that we provide for sanctions. That is why Deputy Mattie McGrath has included such strong provisions in section 10. We need to be able to say to the good guys and girls that those who do not undertake their business in a legitimate way will be penalised for that. A carrot and stick approach should be taken in this regard.

I welcome the Bill that Deputy Mattie McGrath has brought before the House. I commend and thank him for doing so. I have heard some interesting ideas from my colleagues on all sides of the House. The essence of the legislation is to try to advance the debate on precious metals and scrap and ensure our citizens are safe. As I said previously, we have to ensure people consider the Bill constructively. The potential exists to develop other aspects that should be part of this debate, such as job creation and recycling.

I touched on the potential for crime. We have to ensure our citizens are protected. We have to be balanced and objective. We should focus on ways of stopping crime. Any good Minister for Justice and Equality worth his or her salt will always try to be very interested in crime prevention, instead of ignoring the issue until the crime has been committed. Rather than waiting until the senior citizen has been attacked or the young person has been murdered, we should try to study, understand and deal with the causes of crime. This Bill proposes a solution that would reduce the potential for further crime in our communities.

This is an economic issue, a justice issue and a common sense issue. The introduction of legislation to deal with it shows that the Independent Deputies like Deputy Mattie McGrath can make a difference. We have introduced legislation on a number of Fridays. I hear people whingeing and saying that the Opposition never makes constructive proposals. This is an example of such a proposal. It has received the support of many of the Minister's colleagues. I put it to him that he should support Deputy Mattie McGrath's Bill and get on with it.

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