Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)

I thank my colleague for giving me the opportunity to share time. This is a huge issue and one which requires more than the amount of time available to us. I cannot but compliment my colleague on her constructive comments from an educational viewpoint.

I cannot refrain from commenting on the points made by Deputy McGrath, some of which I agree with and some of which I profoundly disagree with. He referred to the fabric of rural society and the need to retain it. He is absolutely right about that. He referred to education, health, crime control, justice and Garda stations. It is the duty of everybody to recognise the necessity to provide for the maximum application of backup support and services to all areas, urban and rural, throughout the country to ensure even in the current difficult circumstances we try to retain the maximum level of competence and support to ensure citizens are treated reasonably equally. That is important.

Deputy McGrath also referred to protecting the interests of the people of Ireland and septic tanks. That has nothing to do with education. I cannot for the life of me understand how he can claim that opposition to the improvement of septic tanks is in the interests of people living in rural Ireland. The reverse is the case. The only thing that can happen with malfunctioning septic tanks throughout rural Ireland is that a lower quality of water supply will be available to people dependent on private water supplies. I do not know from where the Deputy is coming. The more the level of pollution in ground water is raised, the less likely it will be that people will be able to survive in rural Ireland the future. That is a fact and I defer to nobody on it.

As time goes by education, like everything else, needs to be reformed in line with the requirements of the modern era. I am sure some of the reforms will be seen in some quarters as being unnecessary or undesirable. Some of those proposed by the Minister are certainly desirable. We have all met constituents, including parents, children and teachers. Yesterday I met a number of classes and discussed various issues with children from a primary school. I was quite amazed at the level of perception, intelligence and focus on the issues they see at the periphery of their particular vision. It was quite interesting, which is as it should be.

The education system is working. It should not be isolated from the rest of the economy or community. It has to be the area wherein the formative years are used to provide the basic grounding that is needed to ensure a child can move from primary to second and third levels and have the best advantage in doing so.

There are advantages and disadvantages to large and smaller schools, and those in rural and urban areas. We all want to revert to what we see as best practice. There are examples of what has worked well in different situations. People might doubt me, but I am a product of a small school in rural Ireland. Some say it was a good investment, but others are not so sure.

The system produced some very fine quality people over the years the length and breadth of the country, and continues to do so. Even working under the current economic constraints that is still possible. I would welcome the constructive attempts the Minister has made, despite the very difficult situation, to address the issues that arise in regard to small rural schools. He has a formula in mind which will work, namely the amalgamation of resources in an area.

Towns and cities are different, and one can walk from one school to another. It is not possible to do that in the country, particularly in sparsely populated areas. A particular assessment needs to be done of the needs and requirements in rural areas. A distance of 45 km to a school is not an ideal situation. Neither is it ideal to have small schools isolated on their own, and expect them to stand alone and free and still enable students to integrate with wider society in the future. However, modern telecommunications are a feature and factor nowadays and technology can be used to try to ensure integration takes place.

I have referred to the objectives of the education system many times in the past. It should focus on the pupil, which is the primary function of education. How information is brought to the desks of pupils is hugely important. Modern technology can be used very effectively but it is also important to recognise that we are not all equal in how we do these things.

For example, in the political arena some are better than others, and some sit on the Front Bench while others do not. There are variations in the way teachers are able to convey messages to their students. There is a necessity to observe and recognise strengths and weaknesses within the sector, with a view to ensuring that we play to our strengths. Some teachers are good communicators in one area but perhaps not in other areas. We need to make sure we utilise information to the best of our ability.

There is some concern among local management bodies, which they have expressed to me and, I am sure, others, that no consultation took place with them over the introduction of the Bill. While I acknowledge there were time constraints and that it was difficult to have consultation, I hope the Minister may find it possible to address the concerns of local management bodies, making particular reference to the need to recognise that the education system, as with every other, is locally based. Primary education, in particular, is very much locally based and needs the support of the local community. The local community needs to feel needed and to be part of the system. Local communities have been very supportive over the years and local boards of management are very much instrumental in the delivery of education and the handling of issues constructively. Their approach has had and will have a considerable impact on the quality and standard of education.

The Bill makes special provision for children with special needs. The need to recognise such needs in the first instance was the subject of a long battle in the House over the years. It is only in the past 20 years that this issue has begun to emerge. Considerable numbers of unfortunate children never had their learning difficulties recognised. There were many battles in the early days on this issue in order to obtain recognition for children in these circumstances. Like every other member, I am particularly conscious of the unfortunate circumstances in which some children and their parents found themselves. The parents sought recognition of the problem that existed and demanded help, diagnosis, back-up and support. Autism, ADD, ADHD, etc., were not recognised for many years. I am thankful they are now recognised.

There is a deficiency regarding the extent to which we can deliver equally to children right across the country. We have special units in special schools but their number is limited. This places great stress on the system and the parents, and particularly on the affected children.

The affected child does not understand that he or she is different or requires different services. However, understanding begins to emerge over time and children ask pertinent questions at a very early stage. All parents of children in such circumstances will readily admit this. The children themselves cannot identify precisely what the issues are, but they gradually emerge. When a condition is known, it may be too late to address it. If such a condition is addressed in the first instance, it gives the child a considerable advantage in terms of his being able to cope with life and society. This applies to every other child.

It is very important that we recognise a few fundamental points, even in these financially constrained times. We have an obligation to deliver education of the highest quality and standard to the new generation. The system needs to be up to date and to be the best available worldwide. I refer not only to those systems of our nearest neighbours, but also to those of countries worldwide. We need to achieve quality and excellence that are above and beyond any standard required heretofore.

I pay tribute to those educationalists who have, down through the years, passed on the ethos of educating the next generation. There may be differences of emphasis and ability among educationalists, but it is certain that where an educationalist has a natural vocation and ability to deliver the message and recognise the receptiveness of the pupil, great benefits accrue for the pupil, the pupil's family and the economy.

I would like a lot more time to go through many aspects of the Bill to which other Members have referred but I do not want to be repetitious. In the current climate, we need to recognise that we must retain, as best we can, the bulwark of what is required to deliver in the future. I refer to delivery at every level, including of education. The same applies to health services, justice, local community services and quality of life. Quality of life is always affected by economic issues that arise.

There is a danger that the impact of the economic problems could be more severe for those who are less capable of bearing the burden. I do not concur with the notion that the burden has been borne more by rural people than urban people, or vice versa. The burden must be borne equally by both communities. We must always be conscious, irrespective of whether we live in an urban or rural area, of one another's needs. While we will defend our own entitlements and rights, depending on where we come from, we must also recognise the rights and entitlements of those who do not live in our environment and who may not have some of our advantages. It is a question of capitalising on the advantages to the best of our ability to help us to work our way out of our current economic circumstances.

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