Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)

This Bill proposes to amend the Education Act 1998 and the Teaching Council Act 2001. There are many good aspects to the Bill but I also have some serious concerns. Section 4 of the Bill provides for amendment of the definition of "support services" in section 2 of the Education Act 1998. It clarifies that speech therapy services in primary schools will be provided by the HSE, as has been the position. However, it is very difficult to access these speech therapy services and the HSE is a difficult organisation to deal with. While there are many good people working in the HSE, it is difficult to access the services it provides for children in national school, including dental treatments in any form.

Section 6 provides for a revised text of sections 23 and 24 of the Education Act 1998 to provide for the suspension and dismissal of teachers, and the redeployment of teachers, including principal teachers and other staff in accordance with procedures put in place by the Minister following consultation with the education partners and other Ministers. I question how this will work in practice because I thought the Croke Park agreement was meant to deal with such issues. The matter will be required to be dealt with by the Minister and also by the Minister with responsibility for public service reform. In my view this will be a very cumbersome procedure and it is a concern. In my view, the Croke Park agreement was negotiated with the trade unions. I do not wish to see anyone being bullied or moved unnecessarily but there needs to be flexibility in the procedures.

This section of the Bill also makes provision for the employment, in certain exceptional and limited circumstances, of persons who are not registered teachers under the Teaching Council Act 2001 and if the school continues to look for registered teachers in the meantime.

I ask what is the role of the Teaching Council. Teachers who have contacted me are very concerned. Deputy John Paul Phelan referred to a case where a teacher was a day late in registering with the Teaching Council and was forced to wait for Garda vetting. This is a nonsensical situation. The Teaching Council is taking in more than €5 million a year in registration fees. This system needs to be reformed and revisited.

Section 7provides for the repeal of section 32 of the Education Act 1998 and will have the effect of abolishing the Educational Disadvantage Committee, while its work is to be commended over the past years. Educational disadvantage and social disadvantage are significant issues. I refer in particular to Traveller children and I commend the efforts of teachers, social workers and others who help with the inclusion in the system of Traveller children. This section of society has significant needs but now this committee has been abolished with the stroke of a pen. Efforts must be made to help young Travellers take advantage of education and to better understand their culture. All cultures must be respected and understood by all sides of society. I was involved with some of the projects organised by the Educational Disadvantage Committee in south Tipperary and I compliment Ms O'Connor who worked in this area for many years and great results have been achieved. Young people must be engaged in order to encourage them to interact better with others. I do not mean that the Traveller culture should be changed rather that young Travellers can be better able to adapt to other cultures such as ours. I have been a member of a board of management of a national school and also on the boards of management of both a secondary school and a VEC college. I have noted the number of different cultures in schools, with children from eastern Europe and beyond. These newcomers are welcome. However, if we cannot integrate our own ethnic Traveller community and its culture, there is something wrong.

Section 8 provides for the Minister's powers of approval regarding teachers' appointments. I have sat on interview boards and I am aware that some situations may be resolved by arbitration which can sometimes take a number of years.

These can be costly and intimidating experiences for lay people who are involved.

Section 11 repeals the Scientific and Educational (Investment) Fund Act 1997 and the Scientific and Educational (Investment) Fund (Amendment) Act 1998. That is a worry because we must change our ways at primary school level also and adapt to changing times, society and work practices and the competition we face in bringing in high-tech multinational companies. I, along with other members of the Technical Group, had the opportunity to have lunch with the American ambassador recently, although it was not the first time I had met him. I had met him two years ago at a conference in Galway. University College Galway has very good links with the scientific industry in Galway and has a good name but at that time, the chief executive officer of one of the major companies addressed us and said the standard of science graduates, including biology graduates, had seriously slipped.

I deliberately discussed this with the ambassador's aides who understand the situation from the point of view American direct investment in Ireland. They said that when American companies invest here, they must bring in graduates from Europe and elsewhere. That is not much good to the unemployed graduates from Ireland. There is a problem here which needs to be examined and dealt with very quickly. We all know how long it takes to produce a graduate. It takes so many years in secondary school, so many years in college and so on. However, there is a problem which must be dealt with.

Something has gone wrong with the education system because we had a name for having the best educated graduates and that is why some of these businesses came here. I could not believe that if companies invest here, they must bring in graduates from Europe. Even though they would prefer to employ Irish graduates, they are not of the required standard. I am not blaming the graduates but there is a problem which must be examined and addressed.

The Minister has left the Chamber, which is a pity, but I have serious concerns about the thrust of education, especially in respect of the religious ethos. I thank the religious orders - the nuns, the priests and the brothers - for the valuable role they have played in education since the foundation of the State. There were some problems, which we cannot deny. They were horrific and I condemn them out of hand but are we going to throw the baby out with the bath water?

I am concerned about the Minister's agenda. I believe he has a personal agenda here, because of his own beliefs or non-beliefs, to remove the religious from schools. I object strenuously to that. It is a bad, nasty and an unfair move and it does not respect the millions of hours of education provided to under-privileged and ordinary people, which are still being provided by the religious in some cases.

I have always made the point about sisters, whether matrons of hospitals, school principals or whatever, that they are totally dedicated to their jobs. I have served with them on school boards. They do not have the distraction of family or otherwise and they are totally dedicated and well qualified. I have sat on interview boards with many sisters and I learned much from them because they are very experienced and very understanding and I pay tribute to them, including the Sisters of Mercy in my own town of Cahir and in all the towns of south Tipperary. I have children in national school, in secondary school and in third level. I have sat on boards, so I have a small bit of education. I am not saying I am qualified but I am willing to learn. I learn something every day.

However, I am worried about the Minister's intention to banish these people, given the rich heritage they provided us with and the legacy they left us. It cannot be written out of history because of problems or the beliefs which any Minister may have. I am very concerned about that and I am willing to fight the Minister at every crossroads because it is wrong.

I refer to teacher numbers in small schools, which is a major issue. I admire the Minister for twice admitting since the budget that he made a mistake. We can all make mistakes, we make them every day. My motto is that the man or woman who never made a mistake never made anything.

The Minister admitted his mistake with the DEIS schools. Was that because so many DEIS schools are in the cities, in particular in Dublin? The Minister for Communications, Energy and the Natural Resources, Deputy Rabbitte, and others lobbied him on behalf of DEIS schools. That is where the real lobbying took place. I compliment the Minister, Deputy Rabbitte, for looking after some of the DEIS schools in his constituency because that is our job in our respective constituencies.

However, I am very disappointed now that DEIS schools have been dealt with that the Minister wants to write small schools out of history. I refer to their legacy and the richness of the culture and heritage they provide. There is one such school in my area, Sceichin A Rince, which the late Dr. Garret FitzGerald, God rest him, visited two or three years ago to celebrate its 150 anniversary because he had connections with the parish. It was an excellent occasion. That school is the community, as are schools in so many other areas of south Tipperary and west Waterford. We no longer have the pub, the post office, the health centre, the Garda stations and the community facilities and the creameries are long gone.

The school is the essence of the community. It educates the children. Small is wonderful. Big is not as wonderful as we thought. We found that out to our cost in many areas. The teachers in small schools have a real opportunity, which they use, and they are doing excellent work as are the families, boards of management, parents' councils and the wider community. It is a family.

There is also a closeness to nature. The pupils are not in big concrete buildings with concrete yards. There is nature in the playgrounds and they understand a little bit about flora and fauna and do many excellent projects in that regard.

I received a letter from a lady who moved to my constituency from Finland, although I do not have it with me today. We are always being told about the Finnish experience and how good it is. She came to Newtown in the south east part of my constituency quite close to Piltown, to which Deputy John Paul Phelan referred. I refer to the excellent work the principal, Breda FitzGerald, does along with her co-staff in the small school in Newtown. The school faces the threat of losing a teacher. They were pleased with the pupil-teacher ratio in the budget but there was a nasty attack around the back. It was like sticking a knife in the back because we have now found out that many other changes must be adopted. This will not work.

It is like the waste water, or the septic tank, legislation. This is striking at a nerve of rural Ireland. Two years ago the then Minister conducted research on the value of these small schools, including Sceichin A Rince. Has that been shredded, or is it in a box under a desk in some office? Why do we ask people to engage in consultation? Today, the Minister the Environment, Community and Local Government announced consultation on waste water, even though the Bill has been signed by the President. It is a sham and tokenism.

Why did we have consultation two years ago about the value of these schools? People, including the parents' councils, parents, boards of management, teachers and the clergy from both denominations, who are patrons of most of the schools, fed into it, were passionate and were honest. Will that consultation be discarded and will we close these schools by stealth because they will not have the numbers?

Last week we were told there would be a review provided there were seven extra pupils. Who knows whether there will be in a community denuded of jobs and industry? We must keep rural Ireland alive. While there is blood in my body, I will fight for rural Ireland because I know the value of it. It is not all about the cities and the towns.

The parish priest says Mass once a month in that school, Sceichin A Rince, because there is no church in the parish. Plays, public meetings, community alert meetings and flower shows are held in the school. It is the community. If there is a public meeting about domestic water, or boil water notices as there have been for the past two years, that is where it is held.

That was where I attended a meeting with 100 people. There was nowhere else because that is the community for so many reasons. It is a wonderful community.

The shop is closed because they bypassed the village and the NRA and the council would not allow them to put up a sign on the motorway indicating that fuel and other services were available. They steamrolled through and are trying to kill them.

It was a leap year yesterday and I saw one lady proposing to a man in this building. I love to see it but I am too old for that and I am already married anyway. How will a farmer in a relationship get a woman to settle down on the farm with him? It does not matter whether she is from the country or from the city. Many of the city women have been top class. There will be no school there, which is basic. If they get together, they will want to procreate and we want to keep our communities alive. How can we do it if they do not have schools? They have nothing. They must travel and the buses, which are prohibitively costly, are fast disappearing. Free education, introduced under Donogh O'Malley, is long gone. They want to take away the services provided by buses and there must be a minimum of ten pupils in order to retain a bus. There are huge bureaucratic systems, with reviews by Bus Éireann. I welcome the soundings by the Minister of State, Deputy Alan Kelly. A review of school buses was carried out in 2000 and queried why they are parked from 10 a.m. to 2.45 a.m. All buses should be used, including those used for daycare centres. There are major savings to be made. I welcome that because we need to have rural schools, services and buses. Otherwise, people will not settle in the country. Will we have afforestation and close the gates on rural Ireland? This attack on rural schools must be fought, will be fought and is being fought. I have had a number of public meetings. I compliment the teachers on the effort they make. Together, we - the boards of management, the National Parents Council Primary and families - stand while the Department of Education and Skills wants to divide and conquer. It is not right, fair or proper. This is a massive issue in rural Ireland and must be dealt with.

In fairness to previous Governments, there was massive investment in education and the national road network. It affected 80% of the schools in my constituency as they saw huge investment in the past number of years. This applies to two-teacher, three-teacher and four-teacher schools, which did better than the bigger schools, which are under real pressure with five teachers. People in Cahir town have been waiting for decades for a new school to replace the old school, which is a Dickensian building. Small schools did very well and they are all fabulous and new. In many cases, they were short money to finish them but the community dug deep through fundraising such as charity walks and table quizzes. This made up the money for extra elements that could not be funded by the Department. This is the way it should be as these people are the enablers in every community. We want to educate our children to be the enablers to keep Ireland alive, to grow up to be entrepreneurs and to educate themselves so they have confidence and respect for themselves, their communities and the country. We cannot kill off that off by sending them to towns and cities. I am not anti-town or anti-city but what is out there in the community is wonderful and has served us well for generations. To School Through The Fields by Alice Taylor is lovely reading and evokes lovely memories. It is wonderful to go past the school yard and to hear children playing. There is nothing worse than seeing derelict schools with crows and jackdaws flying in and out of the windows. After investing in this, and sending out a consultation document three years ago on the value, quality and justification for small schools, the Department wants to close them.

We had a drastic clean out of the politicians last year but we had no clean out of the mandarins in the Departments, who should have been cleaned out years ago. They are stale, tired and lethargic and they do not listen to people. They are all-powerful people who we cannot talk to, even though there are some people doing good work. Those people need to be cleaned out and shaken up and come to understand the issue by visiting the schools at break times and during class time to see the valuable work going on, the interaction between teachers and the love they have for their vocation. They should see the way families come in and out with their children and the interaction and various extracurricular events such as sport, scór and slógadh, which are part of our heritage that must be taught. The mandarins do not want to know and they want to kill us off completely. They want to turn off the lights in rural Ireland. It will be critical if they do it to the schools, which are our future and must be preserved and enhanced.

It is utter folly to talk about closing them after spending such massive amounts of money. Part of it was raised from taxpayers' money and from charity walks and bungee jumps. It is daft and the mandarins need to wake up. The Minister would be better off rooting that out of the system than tackling the religious denominations that provided such service to schools in the past. The Minister should see where the problems are rather than, as this Government is in the habit of doing, going after the wrong people and blaming the ordinary people of rural Ireland, attacking them and squeezing the lifeblood out of them.

See this speech in context