Willie Penrose (Longford-Westmeath, Labour)

I hope there is some leniency with my time. I thank the Ceann Comhairle for selecting this important issue for debate in the Dáil. We are all aware of the importance of having a safety net in place in the social welfare system for when one falls into personal difficulties such as illness or where one loses one's job unexpectedly. It is important that people who find themselves in these positions have seamless access to the welfare system and that they receive due payments in accordance with their contribution rates as laid down in law.

Like many colleagues in the House, during the course of the recent general election campaign I encountered hundreds of self-employed people throughout my constituency of Longford-Westmeath who had become unemployed unexpectedly. This occurred due to the downturn, due to illness, for other reasons or due to a closure of the business. Such people are liable for PRSI payments under the class S rate of 4% which entitles them to access long-term benefits such as the State pension contributory or the widow's, widower's or surviving civil partner's pension contributory. It can be gleaned from the foregoing that this does not qualify them for jobseeker's benefit irrespective of how long they have been making contributions. These people are compelled to recourse to jobseeker's allowance which, as we are aware, is means-tested.

For many formerly self-employed people this turns out to be their first encounter with the social welfare system. This has turned into an emotive, tortuous and complex process in so far as the assessment must reflect the income that the self-employed person might expect to get from his or her business in the following 12 months or so. Generally, this is posited upon what he or she has earned during the previous 12 months. A minute examination of the previous year's activities and income arising is then gone through. Most people do not have one euro left at that stage. It is rather like looking for last year's snow in the middle of spring. It is an exhaustive process that takes a long time and it taxes everyone's patience. These people are left in limbo without any income to pay for the essentials of living, such as keeping food on the table or keeping a roof over their heads.

The fall-back advice is to go to the community welfare officer. However, this is not a straightforward process. One's history must be reviewed and an assessment must be carried out and this is part of the vicious cycle. In the meantime the self-employed applicant is not even a statistic on the unemployment register. By virtue of this consequence alone, such people do not qualify for participation in the various schemes or opportunities that might arise therefrom. They are left in no man's land. They feel bruised and isolated and deeply irritated and understandably so.

As a result of these situations I have encountered in recent years I specifically requested that a commitment should be included in the programme for Government to examine the feasibility of providing social insurance cover for self-employed persons. I compliment the Minister on establishing the advisory group on tax and social welfare to progress this issue and to establish whether cover is technically feasible and financially sustainable. I realise the Department must go through this process.

We should not forget that many of these people who were self-employed also provided valuable employment for others. Many were sole traders or partners and found themselves to be victims in so far as money due from the main contractor or sub-contractor which may have gone out of business did not materialise or else they were subject to part payment, ultimately leading to the collapse of the self-employed person's business. This is why they find themselves going to the Department.

We must confront this issue and address it in a positive and constructive way. We must address the plight of the self-employed. From my discussions with self-employed persons I believe that given the opportunity they would be willing to contribute to a special rate of PRSI contribution. I accept that this would likely be significant but it would enable them upon cessation of employment by virtue of a downturn or other circumstance to qualify for benefits immediately and have access to the full range of social welfare insurance benefits that arise from making contributions at a given level or class. This may not mean such a person would be entitled to the full range of social welfare benefits but it should correspond to the appropriate class. As an accountant, the Minister will be acutely aware of this and will be better able to understand it than most.

I do not believe this would open the floodgates although I understand the Minister will have some concerns in that regard. Many self-employed persons must register as an employer. Self-employed people never receive any recognition for their role as tax collectors who furnish payments to the Exchequer on a monthly basis and must employ people to do so.

It is time the issue of the exclusion of self-employed people from the social welfare system was faced and addressed in a positive way. That is the least these people deserve. I compliment the Minister on making a good start.

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