Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)

I compliment Deputy Donnelly on bringing forward this Bill and Fianna Fáil will support it when it comes to a vote. The Bill is similar in content and intent to the Bill proposed by my colleagues, Senators Marc MacSharry and Thomas Byrne, in the Seanad in July last year. Looking at this Bill in conjunction with the Minister's Personal Insolvency Bill, I am hopeful that we are finally reaching a stage where we can bring some kind of resolution to many of the issues affecting our constituents over the past 18 months. Over the course of the debate on both Bills, we may come up with some element of a solution.

The Bill proposed by Deputy Donnelly and that proposed by the two Senators mentioned reflect the importance of the family unit that is still part of Bunreacht na hÉireann. While the make-up of the family unit is very different today, it remains important and we should put the home and housing of that unit on some form of special standing by statute. We are all faced every day with people in situations they never would have imagined being in one, two or three years ago. In many cases, these people are in their current position not because of decisions they have made but because of circumstances such as pay cuts, job losses and various cost increases beyond their control. Many people look at this issue in the context of moral hazard. Many people say they kept their heads down, did not go mad spending and cannot understand why so much attention is being given to those who were not like them. However, many of those in the situation we are attempting to address did the same. They kept their heads down and tried to keep their families going, but through circumstances beyond their control they are now in a difficult situation with regard to the family home.

The Personal Insolvency Bill contains many positive and innovative proposals and is the type of Bill that will be copied throughout the world in three or four years time. However, the difficulty I have with it is that it remains a voluntary code and the banks still have the right to interfere and disagree with the various mechanisms. Deputy Donnelly's Bill and that of Senators MacSharry and Byrne seek to address this difficulty and to ensure that some protection is given to the family unit's home and that the Judiciary is given the power to enforce that.

It is important to note the requirements of this Bill. MABS is to be involved and decisions will not just be made between the banks and the borrowers. There will be some kind of independent element involved in assessing the ability of the borrowers to pay. It is not a charter for people to abandon their responsibilities. Borrowers have a role and a responsibility to fulfil in order to present their case. The Bill is not a charter to abandon responsibilities but is a charter of protection for the family home.

I had not realised before now the Minister intended to vote down the legislation but the suggestion put forward by Deputy Donnelly that we should look at the Bill in the context of addressing the Personal Insolvency Bill heads is something we should consider. The Chairman of the Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality is here and he might consider doing this in the context of looking at how we can incorporate the many good elements of this Bill in the Personal Insolvency Bill so that we can produce some super legislation in this area.

I have a concern with regard to debt advisers and people who hawk themselves as know-it-alls in this area and who provide families in difficult situations with their so-called expertise. They suggest they can guide these families through the maze of their debt. This area must be regulated in tandem with the Personal Insolvency Bill and this legislation, before we proceed with the Personal Insolvency Bill. Given the role that these independent mediators have, this area must be fleshed out. We need some regulation for these advisers because there is no doubt that some of them will see a niche. Unless they are regulated, the cowboys who have frequented so many other specialties in this space will move into that niche and use the good intention behind Deputy Donnelly's Bill and the Personal Insolvency Bill to feather their nests rather than pursue solutions.

We on this side of the House have not had the benefit of seeing Deputy Donnelly's latest figures on mortgage debt. However, we do not need to see the latest figures because we all know from meeting constituents in our offices that they are particularly challenging and scary. When the Family Home Bill was introduced in the Seanad last July, there were 55,000 mortgages in arrears and in the latest figures we have, up to end-December, these numbers had risen to almost 63,000 in arrears. The average size of arrears is approximately €17,000 and the average loan amount outstanding is just over €196,000. These are not huge mortgages on super houses but are average family home mortgages and it is these families across the country who are taking the pressure in this regard.

There is an obsession with numbers in the House today and we have all been getting telephone calls asking where we are today and whether we are in the House. It is a pity the obsession does not relate to the content of the legislation and the debate and on what is going on outside the House.

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