Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)

I am. The Acting Chairman could not be hard on me, a fellow Tipperary man.

I have lost my train of thought. I was speaking about the banks, and the treatment they are giving ordinary householders and small business. Big businesses, as we saw, owe them €20 million, €30 million and €40 million and the banks cannot touch them, but if one goes €200 in the red, the banks will bounce one's cheques, charge referral fees and everything else. What is happening is a disgrace. The IMF does not have anything to do with that, but it has given us the loan. We put the people's money into the banks and the banks are not playing fair. It is unbelievable. The Minister, Deputy Noonan, heard - I spoke privately to him last week - about what another banking institution, Bank of Ireland Finance, did to a family in Tipperary. I described it as worse than the Black and Tans, and it is. They are terrorising the people. A meeting was held in Abbeyleix last Monday night attended by 300 people, all of whom have horror stories about their treatment by financial institutions. It is simply disgraceful and should not be tolerated. This problem occurred under the last Government and is occurring under the watch of the current Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan. While I know he is doing his best and cannot click his fingers to solve the problem over night, it is nothing short of outrageous.

We are bailing out gangster banks. I call them that because that is what they are. I have been dealing with them since 1982, when I set up my own business, and I know what they are like. Thank God, I am on the right side of them. If I were not, they would have no mercy. They are not assisting with any stimulation of the economy. They are really clamping down on people and killing off initiative.

A friend of mine, a small businessman from Clonmel, on having been visited by the Revenue Commissioners, which was demanding money with menaces, ended his own life - God help us - and left his family with the tragic consequences. The county coroner in Tipperary, known by the Acting Chairman, Deputy Tom Hayes, stated publicly at the inquest into the death that what occurred was State terrorism. These are not my words but the coroner's. We have large numbers of shares in Allied Irish Banks and some in Bank of Ireland so the banks should be acting decently.

It is not the ordinary men and women behind the counter or the front desk who are at fault but the whizz kids. In fairness, there were bank managers who tried to hold the line and stop people from being given too much money, 100% loans, cars and holidays but they were laughed at and moved sideways to accommodate the whizz kids. The more the latter gave out, the more commission they got. Where are they now? They are hiding like cowards from the people. With their fat profits, they have moved to different locations in the country and do not have to deal with the misery they created.

It is not the ordinary man and woman behind the counter or the front desk who are at fault but the whizz kids. In fairness, there were bank managers who tried to hold the line and stop people from being given too much money, 100% loans, cars and holidays but they were laughed at and moved sideways to accommodate the whizz kids. The more the latter gave out, the more commission they got. Where are they now? They are hiding like cowards from the people. With their fat profits, they have moved to different locations in the country and do not have to deal with the misery they created.

We have a lot to do. I am probably straying a little from the Bretton Woods agreement but my remarks are all relevant to IMF funding of this country. The IMF should have been here long before it came. It did not come on time. Nobody is running away from this problem and we must all deal with it daily. Every family, both here and abroad, must do so, yet we are trying to tax them time and again.

Other speakers stated we should not be advocating the non-payment of charges. I never did that in my life but I am now. When I see a measure that is totally unfair and discriminates against rural dwellers, I will put up my hand and object. Of course I will because all law must be fair.

I agree with the amendments requiring that one be elected. Too many unelected people are making decisions that affect our lives. They are telling us what we can and cannot do. Hey presto, a fines Bill is to be introduced shortly. It is promised legislation and I must ask the Ceann Comhairle about it tomorrow if I get a chance. The fines Bill will allow the State to take fines from one's wages or social welfare payments.

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