Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein)

I move amendment No. 1 to amendment No. 1:

In the sixth row of column two of the table to delete "20 per cent" and

substitute "100 per cent"

We have debated this matter before. There is an air of unreality in the way the Minister is dealing with the whole issue. The average public sector pension is in the region of €20,000 to €30,000 per annum. We must get back to first principles. Nobody should be on a pension of €125,000, much less €150,000. In previous discussions the Minister offered a rationale in terms of property rights and earnings and stated it was for that reason he could not introduce retrospection aimed at stopping such payment.

In my amendment to the Minister's amendment, I suggest the Minister simply claws back the excess, levying any amount greater than €100,000 at 100%, claiming it back for the public purse.

The Minister has made much of his willingness and urgency to deal with all matters relating to the public service. He has taken on a new Department and a new role. I take him on his word that he is anxious to get on with this. However, if it is to be successful it will mean breaking some delph, if I may use that term. I do not fancy the Minister's chances of delivery if he is going to be so timid in dealing with what are clearly insane and indefensible pensions. I see the matter as that simple. If I were sitting in the Minister's seat I would be looking at these issues in a much more radical way than I suggest in my amendment. It is entirely reasonable, however, in a time of crisis, where the State is insolvent and these emergency measures are in the public interest, for the Minister to claw back the excess of €100,000 in total. If the Minister was really serious about getting the job done that is what he would set out to do. He has not dealt in any way that is convincing, not only to the likes of me in this Chamber, but publicly, to citizens who listened to him read out his cuts of billions of euro in his budget speech, when he stated we are all in this together. He has not shown in any measurable sense fairness at play. No public sector or Civil Service person should be on a pension of €125,000, full stop. Even €100,000 is an excessively generous level but we are where we are, as that awful saying goes.

I appeal to the Minister to adopt the measure proposed in my amendment and claw back for the Exchequer and the State any amount in excess of €100,000. In so proposing, I accept the savings from this measure would be modest in relative terms. That is a fact and the Minister has correctly stated so. However, it sends out a very important message to the general public and, dare I say it, to the high-rollers in the Civil Service and the public service, that they are not exempt from the emergency or the very harsh measures that the fairness agenda of which the Minister speaks demands. Therefore, I recommend the amendment to him.

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