Seán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)

I move amendment No. 1:

In page 4, line 7, before the word "Section" to insert the following subsection:

"3.—(1) Section 1 of the Financial Emergency Measures in the Public Interest Act 2009 is

amended by the insertion of the following definition after the definition of "Civil Service":

" 'Contractor' means a person whose personal services are independently hired on a

contract for services basis;".".

I wish to raise this substantive issue although I covered some of the points on Second Stage. The Minister referred to the crudeness of a cap. Where I disagree with the Minister is that the cap should be for the chief executive of the ESB, while the pay of the Bord na gCon chief executive should be proportionately lower. The cap was not intended to make all the semi-State companies equal but rather there was a maximum figure for the person on the highest salary.

I am happy with the measures in the Bill regarding the Judiciary and members of the Government. My amendments seek to broaden the measures in the Bill. There is a general perception that chief executives of semi-State companies now earn below €250,000. However, this only applies to future office-holders. I acknowledge those who have accepted a 15% reduction in salary and I believe seven people are still at a higher rate. The voluntary waiver by individual public servants is no way to run the country. My amendment would see this waiver becoming statutory, which would copper-fasten the matter for the future.

My amendments also include others than the usual list of semi-State companies. I have included the Irish Bank Resolution Corporation, formerly Anglo Irish Bank, an organisation wholly owned by the State. It may have some form of a commercial mandate but it is not a semi-State body and it is not very commercial.

Allied Irish Bank has a new chief executive. Allied Irish Bank and Bank of Ireland attended a meeting of the Joint Committee on Finance and Public Expenditure in the summer. There was a world of difference between the presentations by the chief executives and chairpersons of the two banks to the committee. The Bank of Ireland wants to reduce the State shareholding from 42% down to 15% and it is going about its banking business in the private sector. However, Allied Irish Bank was required to consult with the Minister for Finance, as its main shareholder, on any difficult question. It became clear to me that AIB was an organisation subservient to the Department of Finance. It cannot set its own policy nor can it make unilateral decisions on significant issues because the Minister for Finance is its main shareholder. I cannot understand why a Secretary General of the Department of Finance earns €200,000 while the chief executive of a subsidiary organisation reporting to him earns much more. I do not think AIB has a complicated job to do compared with a bank in the private sector because it is now a State body. This is why I have included it in my amendment.

I also include the National Treasury Management Agency. I have been a member of the Committee of Public Accounts in the past and questions about salaries were not answered. We have some figures to do with the salaries of the former and current chief executive but it is clear that many people in the NTMA earn salaries much higher than €200,000. This agency is answerable to the Minister for Finance and I do not agree that underlings should earn more than their boss because he ultimately carries the can, both politically and financially. There was a time when the NTMA was dealing with bond issues and the financing of the State but this work is now completed. We were told these people were dealing with the most intricate, high finance matters but some of them must now be twiddling their thumbs because that business is finished.

I compliment the Taoiseach and the Ministers for taking reduction in their pay by legislation and I support those measures. However, I do not support a head of a university being paid more than the Taoiseach. This is the situation in the case of several universities and third-level institutions. Third-level research may in cases be co-funded by others, as in the case of the Irish soccer manager's salary where a benefactor is paying some of his salary. I do not fully agree with this practice because it distorts the situation. All such salaries should be benchmarked to the Taoiseach's salary.

Some medical consultants earn more than the suggested figure. They have escaped the net despite all the measures for capping pay in the public service. There is no good reason for this. Perhaps the Minister for Health, Deputy Reilly, must have a hold on his Cabinet colleagues and he has been able to exclude his people. Perhaps we will hear an explanation some day.

I refer to Secretaries General of Departments and others who have agreed to a voluntary waiver of part of their salaries. Those voluntary reductions - for which I give them credit - amount to a reduction of 30% of income. We all adjust our lifestyles to our income level. I acknowledge the significant reduction in salary to which they have agreed voluntarily. My question is whether the pension calculations for those current incumbents are based on the lower net figure as a result of the voluntary waiver. I believe they are calculated on the higher figure which defeats the purpose.

The Secretaries General should be treated as being in the same category as the Taoiseach, the Ministers and the Judiciary as regards pensions. The Minister took action in this regard today because the issue of these pensions is what infuriates the public. Pay is one issue and pensions are another. I support the measures announced by the Minister today while others may say it is too little. Every step is helpful and I will not be churlish. The Minister is to be congratulated. However, the same principle should apply in the case of Secretaries General. They should not be earning a salary of €200,000 a year while their pension contributions are calculated on a figure of €280,000 a year.

I hope the Minister will accept my amendments. He may introduce his own amendments when the Bill goes before the Seanad before returning to the Dáil next week. I am not satisfied with the manner in which the amendments are being treated but given that speaking time is limited, I will give other Deputies an opportunity to contribute.

See this speech in context