Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Independent)

First, I wish to complain about the way this legislation is being handled. This is not about getting the business done efficiently but about crafting legislation that will be robust and that will resist any challenge that might be presented in the courts. It is important that we have time to do this in a careful and thoughtful way. This is not the way to do it and I wish to emphasise this point.

A number of savings to the Exchequer are included in the Bill. I acknowledge they are welcome but they do not go far enough. It is important that we achieve a sharing of the burden. I hear a sense of outrage from people who are struggling on a weekly basis to try to pay mortgages and bills. They are dipping into their own pockets to pay these very large pensions and packages. I am sure the Minister is aware that people are offended. It is very dangerous from a societal point of view that is such inequity can be seen so visibly. Huge amounts of money will not be saved, no matter what decision is made, but the lack of perceived equity and the idea that people can retire aged in their 50s on huge pensions which will be paid for the rest of their lives while they are still of working age is offensive.

I acknowledge in principle what the Minister sets out in the amendment. It does not go far enough but is making a small positive contribution. Substantially more has to be done. Not only this budget but another two are needed if we are to achieve the figure set out in the programme. It will be incredibly difficult. Social stability will be challenged if people see gross inequities. It is important that is taken on board.

I refer to the Ombudsman and the chairman of An Bord Pleanála. I understand the separation between the Chief Justice and the setting of wages. I am not referring to the amount of money involved, but I have a problem with any infringement on the independence of both positions. The current Ombudsman will not be affected but a future one will. The office will be incredibly important and it is vital that we do not undermine its independence. I have serious concerns about the principle of doing that.

The same pertains to An Bord Pleanála. The Minister was Minister for the Environment some years ago. If we want to go to the heart of the property bubble and many of the failings in this country we only have to look at the planning system and how we have managed the building industry. I have serious concerns about the lack of independence of the chairperson of An Bord Pleanála.

The reality is that the people who are in the most privileged positions, who write and make the rules, will always protect themselves. That is what elites do. That is why the really hard decisions are taken against the people who are in very privileged positions.

While there are savings in terms of what has been announced, by international standards we compare very unfavourably in terms of pay rates for the Judiciary, something which has to be examined. There has to be a graduated difference between the District Court, the Circuit Court and the Supreme Court, and there is more to be done on that.

Other Deputies referred to semi-State bodies. An outrageously high salary was paid to the head of Coillte and people refused to accept a voluntary reduction in salary. Salary reductions should not be voluntary. There is nothing voluntary about what the ordinary person on the street has to confront, such as the universal social charge and the pension levy which are universally applied. The separation between people who are perceived to be powerful and ordinary working people is exercising people.

I have a problem with the separation of powers and the independence of particular bodies, but I am not suggesting that wage rates should be protected. However, there must be some sort of framework for a separation between a Minister and offices because the position can be dangerous. I am unhappy with how this has been handled.

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