Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)

Yes, I do wish that some of the statements made about fraud savings could magic away the requirements of the IMF and the troika with regard to social welfare expenditure. All of my predecessors in this portfolio would be delighted if this were to happen.

An example of what happens in most fraud control activity is finding people in a place of employment not registered for PRSI and who are, therefore, working in the black economy. Normally the explanation given is that they have just started work and it is almost impossible to prove otherwise. What happens is that fraud and error detection work prevents future expenditure on a claim which would be deemed inappropriate. These savings are built into the Department's Estimate. However, in recent times I have advocated targeting areas in which there is a good reason or information to suspect there might be fraud or abuse in order to have a targeted and coherent examination, involving visits to employers and multi-agency checkpoints with the Garda, the Revenue Commissioners, the Customs service and the taxi regulator, to check that persons involved in various activities and employments are properly registered for PRSI, tax and social welfare contributions. These visits have yielded an interesting number of cases and outcomes involving people who have been claiming benefits to which they have not been entitled, or who have been working in the black economy.

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