Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)

I thank the Acting Chairman for the opportunity to speak on this new Bill dealing with corporate donations. I am totally opposed to the principle of corporate donations. It played its part in the downfall of the country. We were once known as the island of saints and scholars and now we are known as the island of tribunals and corruption. I strongly agree with Deputy Kevin Humphreys in his earlier contribution when he said we need to open up the political system, particularly to include working-class people. I agree with his view that this Chamber can be a very exclusive type of club. It took me ten years and four general elections to get into the Dáil. I was elected after a lot of hard work on the ground. I know there are many good quality people who should be involved in public life and we should all play a part in assisting them to become involved in politics. I refer in particular to people involved in their communities who are familiar with the issues affecting local people and have a direct link with them. At times, it seems that we in here are living in a bubble and this is noticeable in some of the statements and comments made in the House. There is nothing wrong with Deputy Kevin Humphreys getting angry and it is about time everybody got angry.

I refer to the tradition of political family dynasties and to the practice of candidates running for office because their parents were Deputies before them. That day should be gone. We should be prepared to bring in as many people as possible into politics and we should ensure that disadvantaged communities have a voice in this Chamber. We have seen over the past number of years how there has been a significant erosion of public confidence in politics, banking, the church, business, the Garda Síochána and the system of justice, and one must all include the scandals and tribunals of inquiry. There has been a negative influence on the democratic process. I do not accept that if a person is given a donation of €5,000 or €1,500 that this will not affect any decision made. The reality is that corruption was a fact in the past and there is still an undercurrent of corruption in Irish politics. People are still giving donations to particular candidates and after an election those people are appointed to State boards or become members of some important and exclusive committee. This type of cronyism should be ended immediately.

It should be remembered that the State currently funds political parties to the tune of €13 million. This has been highlighted by Independent Members. I have been in debate and had rows with some of my colleagues when members of political parties accuse the Independents over the so-called leader's allowance. That money has to be spent for political purposes and some of us use this funding to employ extra staff so it does not go into the Deputy's personal bank account. However, we should not dodge the issue of the funding of political parties. I suggest if the Government is looking to cut expenditure and to reform the Dáil and it plans to take a couple of million euro away from funding for special needs assistance, it should take €7.5 million or 50% of the funding provided to the major political parties and then make the tough decisions and retain funding for services.

A candidate who is backed by wealthy people in a constituency or in society in general has a much better chance of being elected. Those who do not belong to political dynasties or who are outside the political party system find it very difficult to get into politics. In my experience, I was always very grateful to people who donated €15 or €20 to help my earlier campaigns. They had a stake in my campaign as a result. These were always small amounts but I always made a big deal of such donations because that €20 or €30 assisted me in paying for campaigns.

I refer to the negative influence of donations on decision-making. We have all learned this difficult lesson over the past number of years. Such negative influence is also evident in the United States and in England, when very wealthy people can distort the democratic and political system. It should be noted how the arms industry has managed to increase sales by getting certain countries to become involved in wars.

I advise the Minister to be aware of this happening with regard to the NATO countries who are members of the European Union. I think they are losing the run of themselves and Ireland, as a peaceful and neutral country, has much to contribute. We should be aware that these people are influencing decisions across Europe because they have big bucks with which to fund political organisations in government.

I wish to put on the record of the House that I have accepted donations over the years from my trade union, the INTO, and it has assisted my campaigns. I have since retired from the INTO so those donations no longer exist. I was always very proud to be a member of a trade union and I was always proud to support the interests of education, particularly education for disadvantaged children and children with disabilities. I was always very proud of my INTO background and my Dublin Council of Trade Unions background. However, I have an open mind and one cannot just ban donations from the rich guys and not from the trade unions. At the same time, those of us with a trade union background should never apologise for that. I will support issues relating to education, disability, the unemployed, the rights of workers because these are part of my brief and part of who I am.

This Bill proposes that only citizens may make political donations. I think a broader debate on this provision is required to include emigrants and others who live outside the State who should be allowed to make a contribution. I have a concern about the limitation provided for in the Bill. Many emigrants now living all across the world retain their concern for this country and they would wish to be part of its life. I refer to the recent Dublin Castle summit and many emigrants are keen to give us a hand in solving our problems. I suggest that small donations from outside the State should be permitted.

I support this Bill as being a step in the right direction. However, there needs to be a clear statement on proxy donations and the Standards in Public Office Commission, SIPO, plays a significant role in this regard. There may be a conflict with the constitutional right to freedom of expression and association. It seems that associations of individuals, for example, companies, may have a right to make donations under the Constitution and perhaps an amending clause is needed. This point has been raised by a number of people.

The powers of enforcement need to be tidied up. I would hope any amendments proposed will not be lazy amendments, so to speak. It is accepted that much broader reform is needed.

I referred to the disastrous influence of corporate money on our political system in the past. An electoral commission is urgently required to replace bodies such as the Referendum Commission, the Constituency Commission and SIPO. I think SIPO needs greatly enhanced powers of enforcement.

Major mistakes have been made in the past. The three largest political parties in the State have been involved in issues to do with fundraising and corporate donations. I am looking to the future. I want to make sure that genuinely good things happen in this country in the future. Many people have asked why the Green Party was prevented from introducing a ban on corporate donations during the last Government's term of office. That is a legitimate question. It is very important.

I would like to speak about the role of councillors throughout the country. Some of them have been in the news for making very bad decisions. Questions of bribery and corruption have arisen in recent years. I am trying to give an objective view on these issues.

The issue of cronyism has been touched on. It is linked to this debate. In the last few weeks, amazement has been expressed about the promotions that have been given to people who happen to have given donations to certain Deputies or Ministers. Such behaviour is not acceptable. As far as I know, the need for Dáil reform was pushed on the doorsteps by politicians from all parties. I know from talking to the other Deputies in Dublin North-Central that there was agreement on the need for cronyism to be brought to an end. We have seen in recent weeks that it is still going on. I do not think that is acceptable. Something has to be done about it.

The proposed new Article 29A of the Constitution is relevant in this context. The details of the wording, as set out in the Bill before the House, are important. I do not know if Members have touched on it. It states:

Only citizens and such other persons in the State as may be determined by law who have the right to vote at any election or referendum referred to in this Constitution, including an election to the European Parliament but excluding elections to Seanad Éireann by the Universities as provided for in Article 18.4, shall be entitled to make political donations to organisations or people involved in political campaigning. The limits upon and declaration of such political donations shall be prescribed by law.

That is the actual wording. It is very important. I am strongly supportive of it.

As I mentioned earlier, I would be concerned about excluding people. If people want to make a small donation to a politician, that is reasonable. I have major concerns about the donation of influential amounts of money. I welcome the legislation and the broad debate on it. I also welcome the opportunity to hear the views of all Members of the House.

We need a new kind of politics in this country. We need to clean up the whole system and reform it. We need to be radical and creative and to bring vision back to the country again. We need to get on with it. I know the Minister and the Government are in a difficult situation. We all appreciate that difficult decisions have to be made. I would argue that difficult decisions have to be made about the distribution of resources. Such decisions will raise awkward questions at times. The tension between the rights of individuals and the overall good of society has to be resolved. The rights of the individual have been prioritised in this country for the last ten years. We now need to focus on the rights of society and the rights of the people of this country as a whole.

People are looking for guidance. When they look at the political elite, they look up to heaven. When they look at the church, they look up to heaven. When they look at business leaders and bankers, they look up to heaven. We need to wake up to the reality that people have lost confidence. We need a Government that is straight with the people. Everybody in this House needs to understand that. My political experience has taught me that if one is straight with the people, one will be forgiven when one cocks up. We all cock up every now and again. It is important for one to say where one stands and then get on with it. If what one is doing is unpopular, one has to take the hit and get on with the job of delivering. That is important.

Irish people have an inclusive and open-minded approach to politics. They do not like the wool being pulled over their eyes. Everyone in this House needs to get on with it. If Deputies have ideas about job creation, they should make them known. If they do not agree with cutting services for children with disabilities, that is okay but suggestions for how such services might be funded will be needed. That is the kind of politics this country needs. I thank the Chair for the opportunity to speak on this legislation. This is an important debate. It will lead us on, broaden our minds and open us all up to a bigger debate. We need a just society. We need equality in this country. We need honest politics.

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