Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)

There is little in what Deputy Fleming said with which I do not fully agree. It is the objective, as far as is practicable, to defend front line services. We need to downsize our public services. While I believe the numbers outlined can be achieved without impacting on the delivery of services, I will not pretend that this will not be a challenge. It will mean we will have to have flexibility from staff within the confines of the Croke Park agreement. Services must be delivered better, more efficiently and in different ways. I have been engaging with public service unions in that regard virtually from the moment of my appointment and believe the objective can be met.

In terms of the specifics, the Deputy referred to education and having a strategy to deal with the numbers of employees who may exit the public service by the end of February. I have been cognisant of this matter from the beginning and I have had discussions with all my colleagues on the issue. Each Department has a strategy to deal with contingencies. For this reason, I asked that the Department be notified at least three months in advance in order that we can make preparations. I hope this will happen. We are very much in the business of managing the exit packages.

On the Deputy's point about having a floor on numbers, I will publish later today the employment control framework for each sector. We will, therefore, know what is the baseline for gardaí, Army personnel, civil servants and so forth across the public service. Perhaps the frameworks can be examined in some detail in the relevant committee.

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