Seán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)

Selling the ESB is the first nail in the coffin of the Labour Party in this Government. That should have been the red line issue on going into Government, but there was no red line because the Labour Party was so eager to get into government. It is not necessary to sell these assets. I accept from this side that mistakes were made in the past with selling the likes of Eircom, but it is important to learn from mistakes.

We have learned and the Government should learn. I accept that mistakes were made but one learns from the mistakes of the past.

The Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, Deputy Howlin, has tried to confuse the issue of the EU a few times. The current Minister for Finance has admitted that there was no commitment on the sale of State assets worth €2 billion in the memorandum of understanding signed in December 2010 by the then Minister for Finance, the late Brian Lenihan. This figure arises solely from the programme for Government. No figure was included in the original memorandum of understanding. In the Dáil a week ago, the Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, stated:

We included a figure of €2 billion in the programme for Government and intend to realise that sum. However, we are obliged to negotiate with the troika on what we may do with the proceeds of the sale of State assets.

The April memorandum of understanding, signed by this Government, stated: "It is important that we make effective use of our state assets and, where appropriate, dispose of them to help reduce our government debt." That was what this Government voluntarily signed up to and it was not in the inherited agreement. It is important to make this point.

In a parliamentary question tabled during the week, Deputy Howlin referred to the interdepartmental group considering the best approach to the sale of shares in the ESB, which is working with the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, and stated: "A second group, to be led by my Department, has also been established to consider possible candidates for further assets sales." The Minister did not make any reference to what he had in mind when he spoke earlier.

I am amazed that I have to say this because I have great personal regard for the Minister, Deputy Howlin, but he was not candid or fully honest today. I tried to get his script but, coincidentally, he did not have one. We are amazed that on the subject of the sale of State assets, the Minister arrives in the Chamber without a script. I think he was ashamed of the script that he would have had to read out. I watched him closely on the monitor and he said that: "From the beginning when we took office, we have argued we want to apply a portion of the sales of those assets to investing in future jobs." That is his line. Is this true? It is not true because the Minister is saying one thing and doing another.

Another parliamentary question, answered by the Minister for Finance last night, refers to a matter I raised at the Committee of Public Accounts last week. The question is about where the money comes from to finance these jobs and the answer is the sale of State assets. I agree with that but it is a revelation to many people that on 25 July it was announced that €1.123 billion of the NPRF shareholding in Bank of Ireland was being disposed of. On 28 July, the Minister issued a directive to the NPRF directing it to transfer the proceeds from the sale of those shares within five working days to the Exchequer. That €1.123 billion is helping to reduce the State's asset and shareholding in Bank of Ireland, which I welcome. It is good that Bank of Ireland is in a position to pay back some of the State involvement. In his response to a parliamentary question last night, the Minister said that €233 million has been received to date and the €890 million is to be received this month, as confirmed by the NPRF at the Committee of Public Accounts meeting last Thursday. The Minister said

These net proceeds from the initial disposal have been classified as a capital receipt in the Exchequer account and they appear in Note 3 of the end-September Exchequer Statement which was published last week. These receipts benefit the Exchequer finances through reducing the Exchequer deficit.

Some €1.123 billion is available to the Government this month from the sale of State assets. Why does the Government not use this money for job creation instead of using it to reduce debt? Every time the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform speaks, he says he will use the proceeds of the sale of State assets to help create investment. While he is busy saying that, the Minister for Finance is busy issuing directives in writing to raid the NPRF of €1.123 billion to reduce Government debt. That was stated at the Committee of Public Accounts meeting the last week and was confirmed by the Minister. Why does the Minister need to sell shares in the ESB when €1.123 billion is going into the State coffers this month alone? It is not necessary and that is the answer to the question of where the funds come from.

AIB, in which this State has a 99% shareholding, appeared before the Joint Committee on Finance and Public Expenditure in September and said that it would dispose of shares in the company to reduce the State involvement. That is a further sale of State assets and those funds should be used for the job creation fund. We should not be raiding the ESB, EirGrid and Bord Gáis for that purpose.

The Minister may find this a revolutionary theory but he should consider selling NAMA and the former Anglo Irish Bank now. The people running both these organisations believe that, over a period of ten years, they might make a profit on it. We should realise that profit rather than waiting ten years and paying consultants, accountants and the likes of Goldman Sachs. NAMA has a future value. It paid €30 billion for loans worth €71 billion, with a write-down of €58 billion. The loans worth €30 billion should be converted to cash as soon as possible rather than featherbedding a whole industry for the next ten years at the taxpayers' expense. The Government should bring forward the net present value of that future income stream and use the funds now.

Reference was made to Greece. If Greece receives a write-off of its debts, even if it is called burden sharing, there is no reason the Irish people cannot expect the same. The banks contributed to the problem and, in response, the Government is attacking the ESB, Bord Gáis and EirGrid. The Government is focusing on the wrong target and it should withdraw this crazy plan and come forward with a sensible plan.

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