Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)

I welcome the opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Bill and also to offer some general comments on the subject to which it relates. It is good that we are engaging in this debate and I thank Sinn Féin and Deputy Tóibín, my constituency colleague, on bringing forward the Bill. We might not necessarily agree with everything that the Bill contains but we certainly agree that there is a need to deal with the matter to which it refers. I have no doubt that the Minister, Deputy Bruton, understands that this issue must be dealt with as a matter of urgency.

I accept that I informed Deputy O'Dea that we hope to tackle this issue in our first term and I have no doubt that the Minister intends to do so. I hope we will achieve our goal in this regard. It is important to bring clarity to this matter and to restore the safety net for the category of people in respect of which the Bill makes provision. There is a need for reform in this area because the system that obtains is long outdated. It is obvious Deputy O'Dea scarpered out of the Chamber as quickly as possible after his contribution because he is aware that the Government of which he was a member failed to deal with this matter. It is no wonder the Deputy, having made a few snide remarks and spending his entire contribution telling lies and misquoting people, ran away. That said, he is gone and we can now engage in a proper discussion on this matter.

There is no doubt that there is a need for reform in this area. However, whatever we do must be done properly. Too often, legislation has either been rushed through the House or has appeared suddenly, at the whim of a particular Minister, and has not been properly teased out. Such legislation has then failed at a later stage. I want this matter dealt with as a matter of urgency but we must ensure that we proceed in the correct way. I accept that Deputy Tóibín and Sinn Féin want the same thing. The Bill is a short-term measure and is designed to fill the gap while the long-term position is resolved. I am of the opinion, however, that if we can resolve the entire matter in the next couple of weeks or months, then we should do so.

Most employers have given commitments to the effect that they will not abuse the system on this occasion. I have not received any reports from employees which indicate that they have been mistreated since the changes in this area came into effect two months or so ago. If I am wrong in this regard, I will hold up my hand. However, no one has approached me to state that they are having problems in this area. I trust that the majority of employers are dealing with this matter in the way they should. I met union representatives and they did not provide me with examples of the system being abused. I did not make this morning's meeting so I am not aware of any facts to the contrary which might have been provided. I am certainly not aware of any instances where the system is being abused. Everyone seems to agree that we must get this matter right.

Deputy O'Dea quoted me as saying that the old agreements were costing people their jobs. I stand by my assertion in that regard. Outside of the restaurant sector, in respect of which people stated that the figures were being manipulated, many college and second level students work in local shops at weekends. By so doing, they obtain employment experience and are trained in the management of money, in taking responsibility, etc. It is essential that those to whom I refer can avail of such jobs. Most Members probably had similar jobs when they were starting out. The type of jobs to which I refer were under severe threat as a result of the old agreements. Prior to the recent changes, if one went into one's local shop on a Sunday one would probably have found the owner behind the counter. This was because owners were not prepared and could not afford to pay the Sunday pay rates which then applied. It would not be worthwhile for the owners of small rural shops which, unlike their counterparts on busy streets in Dublin which enjoy a high level of footfall, operate on the basis of narrow margins and low turnover to pay €15, €16 or €17 per hour.

Those who are prepared to work on Sundays should be well paid. Sometimes, however, we can go too far in this regard. It is wrong that people should miss out on job opportunities because business people cannot afford to pay high rates of pay for Sunday work. In that context, there was a duty on us to address the position. It is not the case that we wanted to force people to work for less money. What we set about doing was fixing the problems that existed in areas where job losses were occurring. We also wanted to protect those working in other sectors whose needs were not being properly catered for or whose wages were being cut. It is not always possible to pay the highest rates of remuneration.

Prior to recent months, it was obvious that many pubs and restaurants which used to serve food on Sundays had stopped doing so. This meant that there was less employment available for people. Less work being done equals fewer hours of employment. I stand over my previous comments in this regard, and will continue to do so, because they are factual. Anyone who wished to do so could see where the problems had arisen. Regardless of the legal position, etc., the reason we had to address the position with regard to the sector to which the Bill relates was because of the job losses being incurred. It is important that when the relevant Government legislation is brought forward, we do not hurt those who are on low pay. Rather, we must ensure they are protected.

The Minister clarified the position with regard to how he intends to proceed. I am satisfied that we are on the right track. Most Members have similar concerns in respect of this matter and want to see the correct outcome arrived at. Some want it to be dealt with immediately or within the next month but there is no doubt we all want action that will clarify the position. We also want the red tape removed. Every Member of the House has at one time or other commented on the amount of red tape with which businesses must deal, the level of costs they incur and so on. The situation where in excess of 300 different wage rates applied was one of pure red tape, gave rise to confusion and caused hardship. We must, therefore, do the right thing as quickly as possible.

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