Brian Hayes (Dublin South West, Fine Gael)

The Deputy's point is well made. What is the principle? The principle is that people can stay in their homes and some form of debt resettlement is put in place. However, it is not realistic to suggest that would happen in every circumstance - I am not suggesting that is what the Deputy is proposing. On some occasions because of the level of indebtedness it is not in the interest of the person for that principle to be extended wholesale.

The Deputy has referred to the very sensible suggestion of a personal debt management agency which is, as he knows, contained in the programme for Government. This would operate as a halfway house between the banks and the people to come to a fair assessment as to whether the banks have reached a settlement. There is considerable merit in what he is saying. I know this is an issue the expert group is reviewing and will come to a view with Government in due course.

There is a fundamental point as follows. At the moment, if I am dealing with a bank that comes to a view as to the level of indebtedness and how much I can afford to pay, even if I disagree with its assessment, where do I go to appeal it? I appeal it to an appeal board within the bank - it is an internal decision of the bank as the Deputy will be aware. We need a beefed up agency like the Credit Review Office for small business, which comes to an independent assessment given all the information. That has the advantage, first, that the banks are given a clear steer and, second, if it ever gets to court there is an independent assessment of the facts and figures presented to that agency. That would make considerable sense. I am not second-guessing the outcome of the expert group that is due to report shortly.

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