Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)

I am delighted to have an opportunity to speak during the Second Stage debate on this Bill. In May 2010 the member states in the euro area agreed to create the European Financial Stability Facility to provide financial support for states that encountered difficulties as a result of the exceptional circumstances of recent times. Those circumstances are beyond the control of member states, in some circumstances. This can be questioned in our own case. The EFSF was incorporated on 7 June 2010 for the purposes of providing stability and support for euro area member states in the form of guaranteed loans of up to €400 billion, with a limited period of time. That is what we were told or promised. I do not know when we will arrive at that stage.

I compliment that Minister for Finance, the Taoiseach and the Government on what they have achieved in relation to our so-called bailout money. I refer to the renegotiation of the interest rates, etc. I wish them well with the further negotiations on which they have embarked. It is not easy. Every little helps. I am very concerned about the sheer amount of money involved and the rate at which it will have to be repaid.

The recklessness of the banks is at the kernel of the problem. They followed Anglo Irish Bank into breakfast and dinner meetings. They behaved recklessly by firing out countless billions of euro as if there was no tomorrow. Many senior officials in these banks - I am not talking about the ordinary clerks at the desks - were getting bonuses on the basis of the amount of money they could fire out. We are all familiar on a daily or weekly basis with the appalling vista of people coming to our clinics who have no possibility of meeting their repayments at any stage. The stress tests that should have been done simply were not done. A little word, "greed", got in the way. Some of those who decided to sign up for these loans, despite having no possibility of ever repaying them, were foolish.

Like the Deputy from Wicklow - I refer to Deputy Donnelly, rather than the Deputy who spoke before me - I do not think austerity alone will get us out of this mess. Anybody who is in business will know that if businesses are squeezed and squeezed, they will close their gates. That is the problem we face. Ireland Inc. is a business that has to be kept above water. It is obvious that we need to get our house in order in many areas of public expenditure. That process is continuing apace. However, we should be cautious about continuing to take money from people in each budget.

I supported some of the recent budgets, but I did not support more of them. I was not working Àla carte - I was concerned that ordinary business people and taxpayers were not getting a fair crack of the whip. We know what will happen if they get any relief. They are being squeezed out of existence and frightened into saving. I suppose anybody who saves is a wise person. People are afraid to spend money. We know what the effects of this are. I do not believe the Revenue Commissioners understand what is happening. They have not made a proper assessment of the drying up of the tax base. The self-employed are just not earning the money. Problems are caused by this lack of turnover.

It has already been pointed out that the United States and the United Kingdom have printed vast amounts of money to try to boost their economies. We have had nothing but austerity and belt-tightening. We are being lectured by the French and German leaders. They keep meeting as the heads of their respective countries. Every time they meet they create a sense of expectation before leaving it go for a few weeks and coming up with nothing. When this sends the markets into turmoil, they decide to have another teleconference or telephone discussion. Their efforts to adapt to the real crisis that needs to be grappled with are poor.

I know the Minister, Deputy Noonan, is a straight-talking man. I recall how he dealt with one of his colleagues at a recent meeting of the Joint Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform. Some might say we are off the wall over here, but we are not. We are a proud and sovereign people. While our sovereignty is challenged, how dare any European Commissioner tell us to fly our flag at half mast? We do that on occasions of tragic loss in the county and we do not do it in response to the bully-boy tactics of some of these people who allowed their countries' banks to be reckless in the extreme. They are trying to save their banks but, eventually, the whole European project could be in danger. We might never see this EFSF introduced because we have seen what happened to some countries last night. It might never come to it because the project might not be around. It is time these officials copped-on. Rather than lecturing us, they should allow senior bondholders be punished. They must be punished in some way for the reckless mistakes they made. When the Irish banks did not have the money to lend anymore - when they were cleaned out - they allowed their banks to spend recklessly also. As far as I am concerned, that is where the real problems occurred in this country.

I have two requests for the Minister at this time leading into the budget. Would he, if he can at all, ease the austerity because it is crippling families, individuals and small and bigger businesses as it goes along? The whole system is being choked. I also ask him, as he will be aware I feel strongly about it, to cut out the baggage and cut the amount of red tape imposed on business persons, and to support them to allow them to survive. I saw earlier where a junior Minister mentioned ten reasons to be in business and ten reasons to support business. We should have all the agencies tell someone who comes to meet them the ten reasons they want him or her in business and the reasons they must support him or her, not all the reasons businesses are given from agencies such as NERA coming with brief cases and ID numbers, by appointment or without appointment, and telling them why they should not be, and are not capable of being, in business. I am afraid we will kill the entrepreneurship of Irish business people, the only people who will help to get us out of this.

We have seen our export figures. I was at the ploughing championships yesterday and it is wonderful to see the farming sector in such a buoyant mood following a number of very bad years - 2008, 2009 and part of 2010. There is hope in that. We got too carried away in this country with bricks and mortar and the Celtic tiger, and we forgot about farming. The Minister, Deputy Noonan, comes from an agricultural constituency. We forgot about it mainly, and that is the rock on which we perished, but now we are respecting and understanding it. Those involved are all self-employed. They need to be supported. We need to focus the considerable number of officials in the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food on a supportive role. I accept there must be such provisions as health and safety, standards and traceability. I am not saying that we cut out any of those, but we must cut out the legions of officials who are stifling the self-employed on their farms. It is wonderful to see the young people now getting involved and supporting them, rather than what they had been doing.

The Taoiseach, who I hope to meet in my county tonight and tomorrow for two good news stories, must stand up to the bully-boys and bully-girls of Europe. He must stand up and the Minister must too, and they must be seen to do this as well for the proud people in Ireland. We are a proud people and know we have made mistakes. I accept I was a member of a party that made reckless mistakes, but it was punished by the electorate which is now bewildered. I want to see them told to stop lecturing us, stop finger-pointing at us, stop squeezing us, and stop talking about the bailout and all the money it involved. One must remember that the first €17 billion of it was coming out of our own pension funds and it was never an €89 billion bailout. I had words at the time with the former Minister for Finance, the late Deputy Brian Lenihan. It was a trick-of-the-loop job. They should stop being dishonest with themselves and with us and the people. People, thankfully, now have a fair modicum of education and they know what is going on.

They should deal with the issues, be prepared to burn their own senior bondholders and be prepared to accept that they made significant mistakes before the project topples over. My worry is that if it topples over, we would not know where to go or what way to turn. Therein lies the worry for our vibrant export trade, which the Minister for Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation, Deputy Bruton, is abroad today trying to enhance. That will go up in smoke if this collapses because we will not have any security or proper level playing ground, and that is where the problem is. Chancellor Merkel and President Sarkozy need to listen and be realists here, not rub their hands at press conferences. They need to do something meaningful and make some tangible moves that will give some kind certainty to the markets so there are not these announcements on a daily basis from the rating agencies, which have become all-powerful in coming out today against one country and tomorrow against another country. The French banks are in a serious situation, and probably in as serious a situation as we are in - we know how serious is the situation in our banks.

I wish the Minister well, but I hope, as I stated, that he and the Taoiseach stand up to these officials and reassert, if nothing else, our pride in this country and our sense of honour, and not be lectured to fly our tricolour at half mast for reasons other than we like to do so.

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