Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)

The genesis of this Bill is the judgment of the Supreme Court following the attempts by the Oireachtas to investigate the shooting of John Carty at Abbeylara. I take this opportunity to extend my sympathy to the Carty family on this sad and tragic affair.

Deputy Jerry Buttimer referred to the cost of various ongoing tribunals. Several months after I was first elected to the Dáil in 1997, the Flood tribunal was established. Fourteen years later, its successor, the Mahon tribunal has not yet completed its investigations. If I were to propose today that we set up a tribunal which might issue its final report in 2025, Members would advise that the issue be parked. It is important that the Mahon tribunal should bring its final report into the public domain without delay. There were recent reports in the media that it would be held off until after the presidential election and by-election. There will always be a reason to delay publication of such reports, but they should be issued regardless of the political consequences. I call on the chairman of the Mahon tribunal to publish the report as soon as it is ready.

While I support the concept of the proposal before us today, I urge caution. I recall listening to the contributions at the initial stages of the Oireachtas inquiry into the events at Abbeylara and being somewhat concerned at the tenor and approach of some of the questioning. While I am supportive of the Bill, I have slight reservations regarding the concept of turning this House into a quasi-judicial chamber. We must have expertise at committee level. Notwithstanding the Government's attempts to reform the Oireachtas committee system, I am not heartened by what I have seen in recent weeks. The system remains cumbersome and individual committees have too many members. For example, representatives of one of the banks appeared before a meeting of the Joint Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform yesterday. I did not contribute at the meeting, which went on for four or five hours, and I am not sure whether any valuable information was elicited. As politicians, we sometimes strive to get the soundbite and associated publicity and, in so doing, fail to get to the kernel of the matter. We must ensure the investigative bodies arising from this proposal can work effectively.

Another example that causes me concern is the recent inquiry into certain activities of the former Senator, Mr. Ivor Callely. While one would at first glance have to say that what he did was wrong, it was not edifying to see members of the committee out on the plinth posing for the cameras. One can not simultaneously be judge, jury and self-publicist. All Members must take their investigative function seriously; it is not about publicity but about ensuring fair play. I was concerned at the approach of that committee to what was a very serious matter with serious consequences for a fellow Oireachtas Member.

As a member of the Army I served on several occasions on the boards of courts martial. I often felt on such occasions that we did not have the expertise to do what we were supposed to do and that the rights of the individual being tried by court martial were not properly defended. That has changed in recent years and the system has greatly improved. In the case of parliamentary investigations, if we bring an individual, organisation or Member before an inquiry, we must ensure it is done right. We do not want a charter for the legal profession where everyone and anyone will have legal representation.

The Abbeylara investigation was succeeded by the Barr tribunal which produced a very good report within a short timeframe. It is important to realise that parliamentary inquiries are not the be all and end all. If the referendum is passed, we must take the time to consider in detail the Committees of the Houses of the Oireachtas (Powers of Inquiry) Bill. Before that, the referendum commission must explain in a clear manner the pros and cons of this proposal. I am not entirely sure the public wants to go down the road that we in the Oireachtas do in this regard. The public must be fully aware of what it is being asked to vote for. What is proposed may seem, prima facie, like a simple, straightforward solution, but we must bear in mind that as well as successes such as the late Jim Mitchell's oversight of the DIRT inquiry, there have also been many failures. We must not have a situation where citizens or organisations suffer as a result of such failures.

See this speech in context