Patrick O'Donovan (Limerick, Fine Gael)

I welcome the opportunity to speak on this Bill, which deals with an important amendment to the Constitution. I congratulate the Minister, Deputy Shatter, on bringing it before the House. It is regrettable that his proposal was not accepted by the previous Government because if it had been, this referendum could have been held on the same day as the last general election. However, the previous Government decided to protect the bigwigs a bit longer, so we are debating the issue now. There is no doubt that the public have been convulsed about this matter for a long time. Speaking as a teacher, and thus a public servant, I know that many of my colleagues were appalled by the Judiciary's rates of pay. The spectacle of the Judiciary acting in some sort of lobbying movement to try to get themselves protected, or avoid the need for a referendum through the appointment of an independent commission, did not go down well with the public. The Minister and the Government are doing the right thing and the public will no doubt say so when the matter is put before them in a referendum.

There was a suggestion in some quarters that this proposal could somehow be interpreted as an infringement of the separation of powers between the Oireachtas and the Judiciary. Nothing could be further from the truth, however, because Article 35.2 of the Constitution allows for judicial independence. In addition, the Executive does not have the right to interfere in the judicial process once judges are appointed. However, we have an obligation to the taxpayers who elected us to ensure that, at a time when the public finances are in the current position, people are seen to carry the burden fairly. At the moment that is not the case because some judges opted into a voluntary reduction while others, unfortunately, did not, which is regrettable. Maybe these people do not read the papers or listen to the news, but unless they are totally oblivious to what is going on in the country, they should all have signed up to this reduction. The fact is, however, that they did not.

The reduction in judges' pay will save €5.5 million, but some people may be of the opinion that the Minister could dig even deeper. We have judges who are among the best paid in Europe, if not the world. We have very well paid judges sitting on the Bench, while legal practitioners in court are also operating on highly inflated salaries and costs, many of which are met by the taxpayer. I implore the Minister to examine that matter also. I know that his colleague, the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, has been examining this issue.

People are annoyed and fed up with the costs incurred in using the Irish courts service, whether it concerns judges, barristers or solicitors. Enough is enough. It is regrettable that judges did not voluntarily enter into this scheme. Reference was made to the fact that the current Government is bringing forward this referendum in conjunction with another one on the establishment of Oireachtas committees of investigation, but that is in the programme for Government and was campaigned for during the election. I cannot understand how some Deputies bemoan the fact that we are bringing forward referenda on the same day at the presidential election. Perhaps they are the same Deputies who gave out earlier because we did not use the presidential election as an opportunity to do this. A referendum on children's rights has also been promised. Constitutional reform was put at the top of the agenda when the programme for Government was signed up to. I am glad to see that today, at the start of the new Government's first proper term, the Minister for Justice and Equality is delivering this Bill. I hope the amendment will be passed by an overwhelming majority. Nurses, teachers, road sweepers, gardaí and everybody else have taken their fair share in this country. It is regrettable that judges have had to be dragged into this matter, which should also apply to new entrants to the Bench, in addition to their pensions and entitlements.

Last week, the country was convulsed over a severance package paid to a retiring civil servant. It is a scandal that the Croke Park agreement would be used by anybody leaving the public service as a way to justify those sort of payments. That issue also needs to be put on the table.

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