Finian McGrath (Dublin North Central, Independent)

While I support the Bill, I have major concerns over the way smokers are treated. While I totally respect the rights of non-smokers, listened very carefully to other contributions and support many comments on the health effects of smoking, I believe throwing smokers out onto the wet and windy streets in the cold and rain shows a complete lack of tolerance for 29% of the population. This is a legitimate point. The closing down by the HSE hit squads of smoking areas in pubs that install a cover or roof for smokers is completely over the top. I have direct experience of this. Where publicans put up a little canopy or a little extra cover for smokers, the HSE closes down their designated smoking areas within 24 hours.

I raise this point because many people get sick and tired of these petty occurrences. Consider, for example, the case in Galway yesterday. Where were the HSE hit squads when they were needed to move in and help the poor children in question who suffered for years? We should ask ourselves questions in this regard. Sometimes people get distracted by trivial issues. The HSE's lack of common sense is appalling and its lack of respect for the 29% of the population who smoke is undemocratic in so far as it impinges on the rights of minorities. This is a legitimate point.

The elephant in the room, which is known to all political parties, is the loss of jobs in the past five or six years, or since the smoking ban was introduced. It is as if we are not allowed to talk about this issue. In the current economic climate, we should consider all the factors associated with job creation and retention. I make this point because publicans have told me their revenue has dropped by 15% to 20%. Many young people are now drinking cans of beer at home because they can smoke at home. There is a cultural change. One should not believe smokers have gone away.

Deputy Ross referred to the effectiveness of anti-smoking campaigns. One must look at the matter honestly. Although the Government has a legitimate concern and is correct about the health issue, it should examine the effectiveness of anti-smoking campaigns. Some 29% of the population still smoke despite all the hype and throwing smokers out in the rain and cold. The Government has not examined the deeper causes.

People smoke for different reasons, including when they are young. We need to consider these. It is very easy to issue soundbites and little pictures and hammer smokers. The latest is that smokers are being blamed for the problems in the health service and the economy. If the Government does not bear in mind the amount of tax smokers pay to the Exchequer, it should get off the stage and listen to what is happening in the real world.

My position has always been that designated smoking areas in all pubs comprise a sensible and fair solution. This solution would respect the rights of non-smokers and give smokers a break from the high-moral-ground brigade. Accommodating difference and enjoying diversity should be at the heart of any democratic society. I make this point genuinely because it is very important.

Section 1 of the Bill provides for the Minister to make regulations to introduce combined text and photographic warnings on tobacco products. I do not know whether campaigns designed to shock and horrify work. When I see the television footage showing a young couple being knocked down in a car crash, I immediately change the channel. I have talked to friends and my supporters about this and most told me they do not want to take such campaigning on board. I do not know whether showing photographs of people with cancer will be effective. The correct approach is through education and targeting people at a younger age.

I started smoking when I was 12. I started at the back of the schoolyard with a gang of lads because I was an insecure, shy young teenager. These are all the issues with which one must deal. Every day, I see young girls in secondary school having a smoke during their lunch break. One must consider the reasons. Some believe they smoke to control weight or because of low self-esteem. We should consider these issues and have an honest debate. Let us is not spend more millions of euro on campaigns that may not work.

I have concerns about the direction our country is going and am very worried about the creation of a nanny state. With regard to job creation, I meet many tourists from different countries who tell me our stance on smoking is putting them off. They travel to a beautiful pub in Connemara and must stand out in the rain to have a little cigarette and enjoy the odd pleasure in life. I had a general practitioner who lived to be 90 who always said one should do everything in moderation, that there is nothing wrong with having a smoke, drink and a chat and that this is good for one. I am in that camp.

When I heard Deputy Ross talk about smoking 100 cigarettes per day, I was blown away. I am one of the reasonable smokers and smoke 15 to 20 cigarettes per day. When I heard about the smoking of 100 cigarettes per day, I said to myself I am not at the races at all.

The Minister of State, Deputy Shortall, referred to the SLÁN survey that suggested 29% of the population smoke. She said the percentage has remained stubbornly high for a number of years. This is very true and links into the debate on where campaigns are going wrong. One reason they are going wrong is the lecturing tone of some of them. This does my head in as a smoker.

Let me consider international research. Smoking is damaging to one's health but so is eating too many burgers or drinking too many pints in a week. For some reason, Irish society is ganging up on smokers. There is a lack of balance in the debate.

With regard to research on health issues, many people who did not smoke died of cancer. Therefore, we must ask whether the research is accurate. Should it be more detailed? We must have a balanced, non-emotional debate, consider the facts and proceed on that basis.

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