Brian Stanley (Laois-Offaly, Sinn Fein)

There is considerable arbitrary number-plucking from the sky. We take serious issue with the proposal to cut the number of Deputies from 166 to between 152 and 160. In the absence of a comprehensive overhaul and strengthening of local government structures, it makes no sense to reduce the number of Deputies. While we accept the need for money-saving proposals, if this is such a proposal, we would prefer to see the pay of Deputies being reduced rather than the number of Deputies. Will reducing the number of Deputies make the Dáil more representative? Will it empower Deputies to act as legislators? Will it improve the improve the position in terms of the scandalous under-representation of women in the Oireachtas? Will it assist the Dáil in holding the Executive to account? If there are 155 Deputies instead of 166, will this enable more scrutiny of State bodies and agencies? The reality is, as the Minister is well aware, that it will do none of these things.

The Government's first 100 days have passed and there is little to show for it beyond a few gimmicks and a pile of U-turns, but this legislation will allow the Minister to pose as a reformer. It is all about being seen to be doing something. When the Minister is asked what have Fine Gael and the Labour Party have done to reform politics, he will be able to point to reducing the number of Deputies. It hardly amounts to reform when we will merely have 20 fewer saying the same thing as before. In Fine Gael's election manifesto the proposal to reduce the number of Deputies by 20 which the Minister has acknowledged is unconstitutional is directly linked with the need for the political class to be seen to be making sacrifices during this time of economic crisis. My party shares this sentiment. However, if Fine Gael and the Labour Party are serious about providing political leadership at a time when so many are facing cuts, they should support the legislation proposed by Deputy Doherty. The Reduction in Pay and Allowances of Government and Oireachtas Members Bill 2011 would cut the Taoiseach's and the Tánaiste's pay by 30%, Ministers' pay by 27% and the Ceann Comhairle's pay by 36%. In addition, it seeks to reduce the pay of Ministers of State and other officeholders by a scale ranging from 20% to 31% and to cut the basic salary of Deputies and Senators by 19% and 9%, respectively. We are also proposing to eliminate the perks and privileges of Whips and committee Chairmen that they hold dear.

In advance of budget 2011 Social Justice Ireland called on all Deputies to vote against any reduction in welfare rates. It produced research that showed the take-home pay of Deputies had increased enormously since 1986, while unemployment benefit rates had risen by only €143.73 in the same period. Ministers' take-home pay in the same period had risen by €1,200 a week. If there ever were a collection of people in the State who were due a serious pay-cut, it is the Members of this House. The savings made would be far greater than those that will be achieved by way of Fine Gael's target of reducing the number of Deputies by 20. If this is all about cutting costs, why not cut them in a way that would not undermine the ability of the Oireachtas to do its job and demonstrates real political leadership?

Last week the CSO published preliminary census figures. They show that the population of the State now stands at 4,581,269.

Article 16 of the Constitution specifies that the number of Deputies must not be less than one Member for every 30,000 people. The figure of 152 proposed as the minimum in this legislation would be unconstitutional were it to be set by the commission, as it is slightly less than the 1:30,000 ratio.

These proposals also do not seem to take population growth into account. The rate of population growth in the past five years was 8.1%, according to the census. If this rate continues, we can expect the population of the State to be just under 5 million by 2016. If we divide the 2016 figure, which would be 4,952,351, by the figure of 30,000 specified in Article 16 of the Constitution, we get a figure of 165, which is almost exactly the number of Deputies we have now and the minimum we would need to be in line with the Constitution at that point. However, under section 3 of the legislation, the maximum size of the Dáil would be set at 160 Deputies, less than the likely constitutional minimum in five years.

Will the Minister explain whether he believes the rate of population growth will slow down and outline his evidence for this to the House? Considering that data from the ESRI in June stated that we have the highest birthrate per head of population in the European Union, I do not understand how this will happen. The population of Laois has increased by 20% in the past five years. The Minister acknowledged the consequences of this population growth when he visited the Portlaoise area to open a new stretch of road recently. Laois-Offaly needs to remain a five-seat constituency as the combined population in the census figures, when they are published, will show the population of the two counties together is now 157,464 in total. Will we have to revisit this legislation in five years when we realise that our electoral law and the Constitution are contradictory?

This proposal is nothing short of populist nonsense. In theory, one could agree with the reduction in the number of Deputies if there was a fundamental overhaul of how local government was structured and organised. If it was to be reformed, strengthened and empowered to do what is necessary, then one could effectively redistribute the democratic representation between State and local government. This is not what the Government proposes, however.

I am at a loss as to how the Government expects a smaller number of Deputies to effectively represent what will be effectively larger geographic constituencies with higher populations. Does the Government expect that people will suddenly stop attending Deputies' constituency clinics with issues that local government cannot effectively resolve, including many issues referred to by a previous speaker? The strengthening and reform of local government is an essential prerequisite to even a discussion around the reduction of the numbers of Deputies. This is Mickey Mouse reform; it does nothing but give the Minister some other issue on which to put out a statement.

It is less than a year since the Joint Committee on the Constitution, which included members of Fine Gael, Fianna Fáil and the Labour Party, published its review of the electoral system in which it examined suggestions to reduce the number of Deputies. It found that "...a reduction in the current number of members of the Dáil would hamper the effectiveness of members in performing the collective parliamentary functions of the House as a whole... [and] ...would also affect the proportionality and representativeness of the Dáil". Did the Minister consider this report, which five of his party colleagues signed up to, before bringing this legislation forward? Will he explain why he has seen fit to ignore the recommendations on this issue and what evidence he has uncovered to contradict the proposals from the committee?

I am disappointed that the Constituency Commission has not been allowed to consider increasing the number of seats per constituency, although this would involve enlarging the geographical area of constituencies rather than increasing the number of Deputies, as has happened before in the State. This would ensure a much more accurate representation of the public's voting intentions based on their percentage vote, in contrast to the current system that favours the largest parties, particularly in three-seat and four-seat constituencies. I welcome that the last Fianna Fáil speaker acknowledged this would be a good idea, which may be due to the reduced size of Fianna Fáil.

The report of the Joint Committee on the Constitution highlighted an increasing trend towards the creation of three-seat constituencies, which it was argued make it more difficult, for example, for women candidates to get elected. The committee also examined the wealth of international evidence to show that increasing the number of seats per constituency has a positive effect on the representation of women and minorities, and results in a parliament that is more representative of voters' choices. It was a little timid in its recommendation to set the number of Deputies per constituency at never less than four, since we should consider five-seat constituencies. However, it was at least a move in the right direction, if a small one.

To return to my earlier point, why are we proceeding with a proposal to cut the number of Deputies? How will it improve accountability in public life or the functioning of the Oireachtas? Why will the Dáil work better and citizens be better represented if there are fewer of us? The Deputies who most welcome this have said it is evidence that the Government is committed to "real political reform." Deputy Aodhán Ó Ríordáin heralded the proposed change by stating, "At a time when tens of thousands of Irish men and women have had to make significant sacrifices in their daily lives in order to cope with job loss or emigration, it is heartening to see politics changing as well." I ask the Deputies who share this view what exactly will be the impact of this proposed Bill on the lives of those who are struggling to pay their mortgages and put food on the table, or are currently considering emigrating?

One cannot simply reduce the number of Deputies and assert that this is "political reform" without some kind of justification for it. To have the Government reply "Because I said so" is not an option. That is the response one would give a five-year-old who does not want to go to bed, not an adult electorate which wants to know why a reduction in the number of Deputies is "reforming". If this is about cost, and cost alone, then let us cut costs properly. Let us drastically cut the pay and allowances of our elected representatives and Ministers. Sinn Féin is ready and willing to do this, and has proposed legislation. We ask all parties in the House to support us. There was much talk about accountability and reform during the general election campaign in February. I hope it was more than just political posturing and that the other parties will support that Sinn Féin Bill.

If the Government seriously wants to reform the Oireachtas and our electoral system, let us all work together to do this. Let us do it properly, together and in a meaningful way, instead of as part of some pathetic, panicked, populist rush from the period before an election, and let us try to show that the incoming Government will do something other than U-turns.

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