Mattie McGrath (Tipperary South, Independent)

The European Council meeting was an opportunity for the Government to stand up and be counted in the national interest. We have been good Europeans, as has been recognised over the years, with Ireland being held up as a role model for other countries. We benefited from EU membership but we also paid a great deal. Now we are paying dearly for the mistakes of a small minority. It is very disappointing because when the Taoiseach and his Labour Party colleagues were in Opposition, they voted against every provision in the budget. People are bewildered then, after so many promises, that the Government can come and steal the clothes of the last Government. They are sitting in different benches but they have exactly the same policies.

I supported Deputy Kenny as Taoiseach and I wish him well but we must stand up to the ECB. The world is watching what is happening in Greece with trepidation because it could throw us all into chaos. I know the Minister for Finance is working hard to avoid that contagion and we hope the Greek situation will be stabilised but we all know Greece does not have a hope in hell of repaying the money.

I feel in my bones that we cannot pay the money we are being asked to pay either. I have been a small businessman since 1982 and I understand a small bit about business. That is why I voted against my late colleague, Mr. Brian Lenihan. The interest rate is too punitive and the amount of money we must pay back is too much. We all agree the ECB must be independent from political interference and that is the case in terms of its day to day business.

In a time of crisis, however, when the European system itself is at risk, there should be provisions for the Heads of State, through the European Council, to challenge the role of the ECB. We must have those provisions because if we do not we are going nowhere and the same will happen when the next crisis occurs.

This country must secure a more sustainable rate of financial support. We are getting a reasonable rate from the IMF but we are being screwed - I do not like to use that word - and blackguarded by our so-called friends in Europe. They are making a healthy profit while we are sucking the lifeblood out of communities. I agree with what was said last week by the Minister for Finance, Deputy Michael Noonan, that we should try to lift the economy but how can we when we have health levies and social charges among others taxes in order to try to pay the interest, let alone the entire loan?

The health service is being diminished. I too am concerned about the general hospital in south Tipperary in spite of commitments by the Minister, Deputy James Reilly. I am also concerned about the cuts in education services, rural transport, elderly care services, small two-classroom schools and school transport. Various schemes have been put in place through many years of hard work and now they are just being wiped away. I do not blame it all on the Government but we must go back to Europe and renegotiate. We must see the bigger picture. They will have to see it too.

We anticipate further increases in interest rates by the ECB. Where is the care evident in that? The banks will have to absorb some of the interest rate increases themselves instead of just passing them on. We get over one crisis and then we are hit by an increase in interest rates again. Mortgage holders and ordinary business people are bewildered. They cannot see any light at the end of the tunnel. Those in Europe will have to listen. We will have to show backbone, stand up and fight our cause. We will have to be proud of the tricolour and let people know we will be a good European nation only when we get fair play, not when we are blackguarded, downtrodden and put down. Our German and French partners are not being fair. Their banks were 50% culpable for the mess we are in. They should take at least 50% of the blame, not get away scot free.

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