Brendan Howlin (Wexford, Labour)

I expect we will have some very interesting debates at the committee. On the Deputy's last point, I hope I will prove to be a courageous Minister but not a foolhardy one. I do not want to put myself at hazard personally for robbing people of their money if I have no legal authority to make such decisions. One must be guided in reasonable measure by legal advice on what one can do. The financial emergency measures in the public interest legislation introduced by the Government of which Deputy Fleming was a part was - I am not sure "courageous" is the right word - difficult to enact, and I do not want to put a strain on it unnecessarily. I am anxious to avoid bringing the whole house down because we are dependent on the flow of moneys from these measures to sustain ourselves. Nevertheless, I take the Deputy's point. The general objective is one of fairness and equity. There is a necessity to take action, as provided for in these measures. Even when we do not have the legal authority to implement pay cuts immediately for those on very high incomes, there is an aspect of moral suasion. We at least need to know how much the people concerned are earning before we can apply that moral suasion. We will see how we can move further on this matter in the course of time.

On procurement issues, the Minister of State, Deputy Brian Hayes, is better placed to answer the Deputy's questions and will do so later in the debate. In short, we must do better on procurement in ensuring better value for money and so on. Having said that, the Minister of State advises me that 95% of what we purchase as a state, by value, is purchased from providers in the State, which is certainly higher than I expected. This might not be the case numerically in terms of volume of contracts, but in terms of 95% of the value of all contracts, the beneficiaries are based in the State. This compares well with other much larger economies. In an economy the size of the United States, for instance, one can source everything within the boundaries of the state. That is virtually a closed economy because the scale is so great. However, for a small open economy like Ireland, 95% is an impressive figure.

I take the Deputy's point on public interest directors. It is somewhat jarring when people are appointed to perform a public interest role and subsequently take the position that they are captured by company law and have a responsibility to the company which supersedes or restricts their actions on the public interest side. I do not know how we will deal with that issue, but it is an interesting point which I fully accept.

Regarding ministerial responsibilities, as I said, from the appointed day the property rights vested in the Minister for Finance shall transfer to me. However, in respect of disposals above €50 million, I am obliged not only to consult but to gain the consent of the Minister for Finance. In other words, we will act in concert on the large projects to which the Deputy referred.

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