Clare Daly (Dublin North, Socialist Party)

Our proposal to delete this section is preferable to Deputy Ó Snodaigh's amendment because it is hard to define "conscious fraud". The word "fraud" is bandied around too much in debates on social welfare legislation when we do not hear it too often in debates on white collar crime and the like. When this section is added to previous statements by the Minister of her intention to engage in lifestyle scrutiny of social welfare recipients, it sets the wrong tone for many of our citizens - unfortunately a growing number of them - in receipt of social welfare.

This section is too heavy-handed. In most cases where an error or overpayment has been made, it is often just an innocent mistake due to a lack of sufficient information submitted by the recipient or an erroneous application for a benefit when he or she could have availed of another one. To claim any problems with this section can be overcome by an appeals process is not good enough. There are backlogs in processing appeals already. Why would the Minister add to an already overburdened process when deciding officers have a discretionary role covered by statute? They are adequately equipped and trained to distinguish between someone who is willfully playing the system and trying to defraud it and a person who makes a mistake. All we are asking is that the status quo be maintained and that the staff in question be allowed to do their job properly and be in a position to decide - in line with the training they have received and the experience they possess - if someone is playing the system or if he or she made a genuine mistake.

If a person is entitled to a payment from the State and if he or she has been overpaid in respect of another benefit, it is common sense to offset one against the other. The only way we can eliminate this anomaly from the legislation is by removing section 18 in its entirety. We will push the matter to a vote because the section must go, particularly in light of the problems to which it will give rise. I appeal to the Minister to remove the section or we will obliged to seek a division.

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