Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)

I thank all the Deputies who contributed. It is important to say that from the early 1990s, there has been a continuous debate about how to structure pensions so everybody at work, and not only particularly wealthy people, who contribute through tax and social insurance pay for their own pensions and those of others when they come to retire. Happily, people are living longer, which is a great advance, but it means we must structure pensions in a way that it is possible to pay for them within a reasonable framework.

I draw Deputies' attention to something positive that has developed but which is a cost for which we, as a society, must account. Back in 1994, when I worked in this Department, one of the improvements for which I and people in other political parties were responsible was the introduction of the notion of homemaker's credits so people who had to, and wanted to, spend time at home caring for children under 12 years of age or for people with a disability would not be ruled out of having pension coverage. We have built up a system of entitlements to credits, and rightly so. That has been ongoing since 1994 and has been revamped and improved at different points over the years.

In 1997 legislation was passed, to which Deputy Ó Snodaigh referred, on the structure of contributions which is due to take effect in the next few years and which will mean that ultimately over a long period of time we will move to looking at the total contributions somebody makes over his or her working life in order to determine the kind of pension he or she will get.

These changes in the pension system have been ongoing for the past 20 years and all parties and people of no political party in this House have been involved at different times in these discussions. Specifically, changes in regard to pension age and demographics have been discussed in Green Papers, White Papers and frameworks during the 2000s. All of the parties interested and all the groups working with older people have been very involved in these discussions. As I said earlier, the submissions made can be viewed on the national pensions framework website. There was open and detailed discussion.

The core point is that we must find a way where the kind of pension structure we want to create is sustainable and which people in work must contribute to and pay for. People who are not in work because, for instance, they are looking after young children or people with a disability must get due recognition in the pension framework and system for the contributions they make to society. However, there is an increase in the number of people who are ageing. It is a happy position for Ireland that people are living longer and that they are healthier when they are older. Of course, some people face serious and disabling illnesses, often from a very young stage in life, and there are structures within the social welfare system to take account of that. Happily, however, the majority of older people are living for longer and are living more active and healthy lives.

There are people who have specific difficulties arising from specific occupations. Deputy Halligan referred to people in manual occupations where the work is very hard, but Deputy Higgins also said that computers were making people's working lives harder. I have worked in many different jobs in the course of my working life and my impression was that although automation and computers might not have led to a decrease in the amount of paper we are using, as was promised, in many industries I hope the Deputy will acknowledge that there has been significant improvement in conditions and safety at work, particularly due to the work of the labour and trade union movement. There are many areas where that needs to be improved but there has been a significant improvement in working conditions in this country. I do not believe computers have made working conditions harder. In fact, they have contributed to automation and in many employments they have made people's working situation easier.

The proposals in this Bill were signalled as far back as 2007 and were set out in detail by the previous Government in March 2010. They were included by that Government in the framework for the IMF, the European Union and the ECB. This is part of a change in pension provisions and requirements not just in this country but in other European countries. One of the proposals, which I discussed earlier today with Deputy Ó Snodaigh, is that auto-enrolment for pensions will begin to be rolled out sometime in 2014, depending on economic conditions. If we can get more people back to work, achieve growth in the economy and a better system of contribution by more people for pension provision at an earlier stage in their working lives, we will be able to rebalance pension provision in this country. I very much hope we will be in a position to do that.

As Deputy Higgins might be aware, it is proposed in the programme for Government that the pension position of politicians, for example, should be trimmed and reduced. I did a huge amount of work on pension reliefs to set out in detail how much they cost this society in terms of tax expenditures, and these reliefs will be significantly reduced over the years of the programme for Government. There is a commitment to limit those reliefs by a significant amount over the term of that programme. A number of very significant reforms have been under way for some time and all of the different organisations involved with pensions and pension provisions have been able to discuss and make submissions on them.

Deputy Cowen had a query about transitional entitlements such as fuel allowances and so forth. Frankly, I cannot make a commitment about what the situation will be in 2014. However, if there are special needs, people at present clearly have an entitlement to make applications under the social welfare system. I will reiterate my view, nevertheless, about what is really important for many older people, particularly those in local authority housing. Deputy Ó Snodaigh alluded to this and I strongly agree with much of what he said. We have houses that were built in the 1970s and 1980s in which the system and standard of insulation is far below what is acceptable. We could make people's lives more comfortable and healthier, particularly in the case of older people, if we had a system of retrofitting those houses.

The ESB has announced a number of proposals whereby it will be possible to get insulation work carried out on older properties which could be paid for over a period of time through regular deductions. Local authorities could also do that. Many people would be happy to contribute an extra modest sum of money per week to get their windows done, for example. My colleague, Deputy Willie Penrose, the Minister of State with responsibility for housing is extremely anxious to proceed on such issues. In the context of the current economic crisis it is a challenge to get such programmes up and running but it is something that will ultimately probably do far more than direct fuel allowances for the comfort and lifestyle of many people, particularly older people who have been, and still are, tenants of local authority houses built in the early 1970s. While bits and pieces of work have been carried out on those houses by various local authorities, in some cases windows have not been replaced or the replacement windows of ten or 15 years ago were only single glazed. That is an important issue we must address. I cannot give the Deputy an absolute commitment as to how these matters will stand in 2014. I can only offer my own views based on my detailed knowledge.

I believe I have addressed most of the issues raised by the Deputies.

See this speech in context