Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)

I welcome the Government's contribution to the debate on this Bill. I refer in particular to the contribution of the Minister of State. I am delighted that the principle of the legislation has been accepted. As the Minister of State said, it is very important that people should not be condemned to a lifetime criminal record for something they may have done many years earlier.

When one reflects further on this issue, one appreciates that younger people in more disadvantaged areas who did not get many opportunities in life are more likely to have convictions than those from more advantaged areas. When such people are looking for employment, they often face a double disadvantage. In addition to suffering from the lack of educational opportunities associated with where they come from, they may also have a minor conviction on their record. The combined effect of both of those factors can keep them out of the jobs market. I will never forget a young person who came to my office who many years previously had a conviction. Every time the person went for a job, he got so far and then, of course, the issue of the conviction came up. It was for a minor offence and still was on the record. As I stated, this is one case where we will do disproportionate good rather than harm in areas of high disadvantage where more young people wind up with some kind of a conviction for an offence, then mature and keep away completely from crime, but this legacy compounds other difficulties they might have faced in life.

Taking the points the Minister of State, Deputy Kathleen Lynch, raised, for example, that sexual offences would never be included here, I am very interested in the idea that she could talk about a longer term. All of those issues can be looked at constructively, on Committee Stage. For example, there is nothing to say the Bill could not provide that in the case of a sentence on conviction of a year one would need to be ten years' crime free, but the more we allow people the opportunity not to have these showing up time and again for matters that have long past, the better. For example, a person who at age 20 was convicted of a crime, spent a year in prison and reformed completely, has the conviction dug up all the time when the person is aged 40, 45 or 50 even though he or she has probably done an even greater feat than those who never had a conviction by keeping out of crime, but still it hangs over them. I am very interested in what the Minister of State had to say on that issue.

I am also interested in what she had to say about a more nuanced approach. We can build on the basic idea here and come up with a better and more balanced measure, but it is important that whatever approach is taken is relatively simple for people to understand. Sometimes we make laws very complex in this House and it would take a barrister to understand what is going on. It is important when writing law that it would be nuanced and sensible, that it would take a rational and coherent approach but also that it would be easily understood.

I was interested also in what the Minister of State had to say about the public service. There is a basic point, for example, that a job in the public service might not be one with significant responsibility. It might be a job doing minor maintenance work around a public building. To say that such a job is totally different from a much more responsible job in the private sector by some magic formula is certainly worthwhile.

An aspect of the Government's response is of interest. As somebody who worked in a Department, and meaning no offence to the good civil servants here, they are always warning one of the pitfalls and trying to make it more restrictive. It is good to hear where a proposal is being built on and there is talk of making it less restrictive than the original proposition. I had a device if I wanted to sell a new idea. I would always make it very tight in the beginning and if I thought that I was making headway, then I could move it outwards. On the other hand, if one made it very loose or "liberal" in the beginning, the proposal would be thrown out as being unworkable etc. In following that, it is good that we are talking about a Bill where the criticism is that it might be too tight and that we can loosen it a bit, rather than a Minister coming in stating it is far too dangerous, would be totally irresponsible and we must throw it out on its head. I am delighted with the reaction of the Government.

I would be interested in finding out the Government's timescale on the alternative proposals it wants to bring forward building on this proposal because it is something we should just get on with. Every day we meet such people. We all know them. Let us be honest about it. If we look at the statistics, young people get into trouble. We all did crazy things when we were young - some of us did not get convictions for them but it does not mean that they were not crazy - and as we get older, in many cases we get wiser and more sensible. In a world where we realise that engagement in the workplace is so important, removing unnecessary barriers to the work place is vital.

Often I have stated that when I went into the Department of Social Protection one of the first questions I asked was the medical effects of unemployment on people. I asked for two pages and I got them. I thought I would get a long document; I did not. The Chief Medical Officer gave me the references to the best medical evidence available which was quite stunning and blunt, that is, those who are unemployed suffer from higher morbidity and higher mortality, they go to the doctor more often and they take more medicines. It was really gratifying to find out that those who are unemployed suffer more from depression and every kind of medical index one could think of was negative for unemployment, caused solely by unemployment. The good news in the document was that all of the medical evidence is that re-employment in 99% of cases causes 100% cure. I remember joking with then Minister for Health and Children, Deputy Harney, that if she gave me a good slice of her budget I could reduce much of the illness in the country by employing the many unemployed in doing something useful in society because it is not in the nature of a human being to be unemployed. We all know the considerable devastation in families and neighbourhoods caused by unemployment and anything we can do to remove the barriers to employment, particularly for those who might find it difficult to get employment, is valuable.

I very much welcome that the Bill is being accepted across the House and that there is cross-party agreement on this. It is the way this side should work where there is agreement. Obviously, there must be agreement across all parties on certain issues. The attitude being taken is responsible. I stated my main concern is when we will get this Bill enacted so that we can say to those who have convictions, who have served their time in one way or another through a fine, time in prison or whatever, and who have served their time in waiting having the conviction on the record that is shown for all employments and with the exceptions in the Bill, that this will not now be held against them in any future application for employment subject to the careful provisions of the Bill.

Is dóigh liom gur lá tábhachtach é seo don Bhille. Tá a fhios agam gur glacadh le Billí de chuid an Aire, an Teachta Shatter, nuair a bhí sé mar Ball den Fhreasúra. Tá áthas orm go bhfuil sé sásta glacadh le Billí staidéarach agus ciallmhar uainn, go mórmhór reachtaíocht a tugadh faoi bhráid an Tí cheana agus a fuair tacaíocht. Mar a dúirt mé, tá súil agam go dtabharfar an Bille seo faoi bhráid Tithe an Oireachtais go luath agus go ndéanfar é a achtú agus a chur i bhfeidhm.

Question put and agreed to.

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