Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)

I thank the Cathaoirleach agus ba mhaith liom mo bhuíochas a ghabháil le gach Teachta a ghlac páirt sa díospóireacht seo. Go háirithe, ba mhaith liom mo bhuíochas a ghabháil leis na Teachtaí a thug a dtacaíocht do na réitithe éagsúla sa Bhille agus go mórmhóir, doibh siúid a labhair faoin scéim inteirneachta. I thank all Members from both the Government parties, as well as the spokespersons for Fianna Fáil and Sinn Féin, as well as the various Members who spoke on behalf of the Technical Group.

A key purpose of this Bill is to establish a functioning national internship system for those who cannot get work experience. They may have qualified, finished their apprenticeships, primary or masters degrees or other training but cannot get a job in the current economic climate because they do not have experience and cannot get experience because they cannot get a job. Since my appointment, I have been working with a wide variety of organisations and have been visiting and meeting people to encourage organisations in the public, private, voluntary and community sectors to give people who cannot gain experience for their curricula vitae a chance to gain valuable work experience. Such programmes exist in the United States in particular, as well as, for instance, in the European Union and in many European countries. Basically, they constitute a bridge for people who have achieved certain qualifications but who simply cannot get their foot in the door with regard to getting a job. I am happy to note a high level of interest and co-operation has been shown by various organisations in creating the scheme.

I wish to point out there is a difference between this scheme and those which had been announced previously. I acknowledge the former Minister, Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív, has observed that he had set out a national skills development and internship programme and that he also had set out another scheme called Tús. However, although 5,000 places had been allocated to each of the aforementioned schemes, on becoming Minister I was somewhat surprised and disappointed to find that no one was participating in them. While 5,000 places were available in theory on each scheme, nothing had happened. In the case of the internship scheme, the problem was that by the end of April, only 195 companies had expressed an interest. A problem that arose pertained to the scheme's structure and the top-up payment. Under the new scheme, the top-up of €50 will be paid by my Department, whereas under the Fianna Fáil scheme, it was to be paid by the supporting organisation. Clearly, this caused major problems for community and voluntary organisations for example, as well as for many small businesses. Consequently, in this case my Department will pay the €50 top-up and this will clear a number of the technical difficulties that unfortunately applied to the scheme set out by the former Minister, Deputy Ó Cuív. Similarly with Tús, although two small pilot schemes has been set up, no one was actually participating in the scheme.

I am highly confident that under this scheme, which will be innovative and will be a first start in Ireland, many people will gain valuable experience. It is critical to prevent younger people, particularly young men, from going on social welfare where six months becomes a year and one year becomes two years. National and international surveys have shown that long-term unemployment is extremely damaging to the individual and to their families, particularly their children. As a society we want to do everything we can to prevent young people slipping into long-term unemployment. It gives me no pleasure to see young men who were able to get well-paid jobs five or six years ago working on the buildings and who now stroll down together to their local social welfare office and where being on social welfare becomes a lifestyle. We have to try to change that mentality in this country. We have to give people opportunities and alternatives. I am determined that social welfare does not become a long-term feature of the lives of young people, but rather a system which encourages them and offers them opportunity and a chance to go back to education and training or to take on work experience and internship. This scheme will begin in a modest way with 5,000 places and I appreciate the support of Deputies for it.

Deputies on all sides welcomed the restoration of the minimum wage and I thank them for that support. They will have noticed two complementary measures in the Bill, including the reduction by half in employers' PRSI rate for employees on low wages. The reduction of the minimum wage rate hit the people in employment who are most vulnerable. The restoration involved is worth €40 a week to a worker earning the minimum wage. While some might say they would like it to be more, the restoration of €40 a week is very important, particularly for women workers and those in part-time and occasional employment and young workers.

Fraud is another issue that is raised constantly. Section 12 provides for profiling. Shortly after I became Minister I published a report commissioned by the Department some years ago which examined the success rate of those interviewed by the national employment activation programme and who were offered various types of FÁS training. The report was done by the ESRI for the Department. I asked the ESRI to publish it so that all interested parties in this vital area of getting people back to work, education and training could study it. It showed that the success rate of the current system is quite limited either because courses do not suit people or people waiting for interview were never interviewed and for other reasons seem to have fallen through the system. In some cases, having been interviewed, some people's opportunity for getting a job receded rather than expanded. Every party in this House needs to think about how we are spending vast amounts of money on social welfare and employment and training supports. We need to concentrate on the schemes which really help people who have become unemployed, the vast majority of whom are anxious to get back to work.

Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett seemed not to like the idea of profiling; I think he used the term "harassment". I am aware that the current pilot scheme on profiling is being carried out in Dún Laoghaire and there has been only one complaint so far regarding questions about educational background being asked of the people signing on. It does not take a lot of thought to suggest that a young person signing on might, in the current jobs market, consider going back to education to complete secondary education and look for other training so as to be able to get employment in areas and sectors where employment is available. I am happy to say that the individual in question completed the profile.

As Deputy Smith noted, section 13 gives additional powers to my Department to participate in joint teams with Revenue and the Customs and Excise to set up multi-agency checkpoints in some areas along the Border. Every euro saved on fraud is money that could be given to legitimate social welfare beneficiaries and to pensioners who need income support.

I watched last night's television programme on TV3. The people were giving the information anonymously but it was shocking to see people who had been receiving jobseeker's allowance for four years detailing a variety of scams they were using to steal from the State. They are stealing the incomes of pensioners and others in need of social welfare support. Since I became Minister I have met with the Chairman of the Revenue Commissioners and with the key personnel in Revenue who deal with fraud, along with the anti-fraud teams in my own Department, to examine what additional levels of co-operation are possible. Social welfare is a contract and the people paying PRSI and PAYE must have confidence that their contributions to the social welfare system are spent well and targeted at those who need social income support.

The public service card will be rolled out later this year. The Bill provides for additional powers to demand surrender of the card where it is believed it is being used illegally.

The contributions of many Deputies on all sides reflected the need to reach a balance as regards social welfare fraud. We want a system with good social welfare supports for people who need them, but equally we need very strong measures to prevent fraud. I am determined to send out a message that in the next couple of years there will be a progressive increase in measures to deter and detect fraud from its inception.

Deputy Paschal Donohoe mentioned the issue of poverty traps and I refer also to rent supplement, an issue mentioned by a number of Deputies. Rent supplement probably constitutes the biggest employment trap in the system. When I became Minister I asked my officials to work out the figures. A family of a couple with three children who are renting a house with a rent supplement for a figure between €700 and €1,100 a month, an average of €1,000 a month, means a differential of €12,000 a year. If that person gets a job, he or she is looking at a total package of supports, between a social welfare income and various child supports, the rent supplement and a medical card, worth in total up to €38,000 a year approximately.

It is very difficult for somebody in that situation to face losing his or her rent supplement valued at €12,000 a year. I wish to advise Deputies that I am working closely with the Minister and Ministers of State in the Department of the Environment, Community and Local Government to make rent and housing the responsibility of local authorities and transfer responsibility for rent supplement to them.

In regard to appeals, shortly after I was appointed Minister I appointed nine new appeals officers, all of whom are experienced, to significantly strengthen the number of appeals officers in the Department. I hope that over the next few months as they complete their training it will result in a considerable reduction in the time taken to process appeals which I know is a matter of enormous concern to people.

The creation of the one-stop shop framework of community welfare officers and bringing the employment services side of FÁS into the Department will in the next year or two mean that more people will be able to apply and get their benefits at their local office rather than having, as currently happens, to go from a social welfare office to a community welfare office and perhaps even to a FÁS office. We are bringing them all together in one stream at one location.

I commend the Bill to the House and thank those Deputies who have supported it, in particular, the restoration of the €1 an hour cut in the minimum wage.

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