Joanna Tuffy (Dublin Mid West, Labour)

I wish to respond to points I heard made in the debate earlier. Deputies John Paul Phelan and Brendan Griffin spoke about the need to couple Dáil reform with reform of the electoral system and I fundamentally disagree with this. The point needs to be repeated again and again that any electoral system other than PR-STV in multi-seat constituencies would give the voter in Ireland less say. Single seat constituencies would favour the larger parties and would be a case of winner takes all; it is not much better a system than first past the post. Smaller parties and those who vote for them would find it more difficult to elect people to the Dáil. A list system would impose on the Dáil exactly that for which we criticise the Seanad, namely, unelected people appointed by party leaders with no requirement to go before the people in the ballot. In our system, individual people and not only political parties are held accountable by the voter, and we would be mad to move away from this.

It is misguided to think our problems were caused by our electoral system. This suggests that voters should not be trusted to vote for their representatives. Democracy is not perfect, as has been stated, but it is better than any other system. The other side of this is that it is a wonderful system, and the voters spoke in the most recent election. There is an idea that people going to Deputies' clinics caused our problems with the banks. They were not caused by a person on social welfare going to a Deputy's constituency clinic, and they are not the people who should be taken out of the equation. They were caused by the completely unaccountable bankers going to a Minister in the middle of the night seeking a bank guarantee, and the completely unregulated lobbyists seeking tax breaks for developers. This is where the problem lies and where reform is needed.

People speak about mixed electoral systems. There are problems in countries with a two tier system of members of Parliament because the public think the constituency-elected members are the real ones. This was found in research carried out in Wales, where a few years ago a commission recommended moving to PR-STV, the system which we have. Other countries have civic campaigns to introduce PR-STV in multi-seat constituencies because it is the most democratic and proportionate of electoral systems in practice in the world today. I absolutely defend PR-STV and I am proud to have been elected in this way. It is a difficult way to get elected but it gives the voter the ultimate say on who sits in the Dáil.

I fundamentally disagree with gender quotas. Under our Constitution, one cannot prevent people from putting forward their names for election on the basis of gender. No woman has ever been told she cannot put forward her name for election. However, in practice, a gender quota would mean that men would be told that they cannot put forward their names and that people cannot vote for them because they are men. This is not the way to deal with the issue of women not participating in politics.

As has been said, there is no difficulty about women getting elected. Women are winning selection conventions so that is not the problem. There is a need for more women to become active in political parties and to want to run for election. If we start to make top-down decisions in regard to the selection of candidates through the imposition of gender quotas, we should be in no doubt that party leaderships will ensure they impose the gender quota against those they do not want and in favour of those they want. Top-down decisions in regard to the selection of candidates take away the right of people to decide whether they want to go forward for selection and of members to pick their candidates. It is fundamentally undemocratic. If we really want more women in politics, we must make our parties more democratic and stop the tendency to move away from party members making decisions about matters such as this. I fundamentally oppose gender quotas.

There are different opinions on gender quotas. Many women inside and outside political parties are against gender quotas while some men are for them. That is freedom of speech. If we want more women in politics, we want women who will express their opinions and who are entitled to say what they think in debates such as this. Often the likes of the National Women's Council basically tarnish women just because they express a different view to it on this issue and make derogatory comments about us, which is unacceptable.

The real issue in terms of Dáil reform is how it operates. The former Taoiseach, John Bruton, put it best. We need to shift the balance back to the Government backbencher and the Opposition Deputy. Any moves we make must do that. There is much to be desired in terms of how parliamentary questions are answered.

We also need to deal with the empty Chamber syndrome. The Whips tell us to be here when Leaders' Questions or Taoiseach's questions are being taken but they should tell us to be here to listen to each other on this important issue and to have a proper debate where one listens to what someone says and then either agrees or disagrees. That is proper debate and it is an issue which needs to be addressed.

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