Maureen O'Sullivan (Dublin Central, Independent)

I wish to share time with Deputies Healy, Wallace, Ross and Tom Fleming. I find the term "white collar crime" rather strange because in the psychology of colour, white is associated with innocence and goodness. It is strange to see "white" and "crime" in the same sentence. However, the amount of damage done to this country in the name of such crime is immense.

The question must asked as to whether there is a need for this legislation or whether there is already enough to pursue those in the wrong. If we have the enforcement measures to deal with this type of crime, they are not being used to their full potential. It is a serious issue if legislation exists but it has not been used to go after those who caused irreparable damage to this country. That would be disgraceful.

There is a real perception in the country that those who were reckless in banking, finance, investment and business have gone unpunished while our prisons are full with those who have committed far lesser crimes. There is no doubt that there is a loss of faith in our criminal justice system, with the perception that those with money can get away scot free or relatively scot free. This will be compounded if it is proven, as some in the legal profession say, that there was enough in the Central Bank and Financial Services Authority Acts of 2003 and 2004 to use against those in the wrong.

The faith of the public will not be restored in the legal system if those who have done wrong continue to be seen to go unpunished and are left with their lavish lifestyles, multiple properties in a variety of names and offshore accounts. The issue of morality also arises in that they are not taking responsibility for their wrongdoing. The slow pace of the current investigations into the banking and financial wrongdoing is not helping to restore faith in the criminal justice system. It is accepted that white collar crime is often complex and involves large amounts of data, and the questioning and checking of facts cannot be completed as quickly as is the case for other crimes. It is hoped, therefore, that breaking the period of questioning into segments will facilitate investigations.

I note the sections of the Bill which give the Garda power to apply to the District Court for orders to compel witnesses to produce documents and provide passwords where the information is held on a computer. It is important, however, that investigating gardaí know what they are looking for. Will they be given the necessary training in accessing and categorising documents? The proposals in this regard have to work in practice as well as sounding good on paper. If Garda special units are not trained in the skills needed to deal with complex documents and analyse figures and accounts, the Bill will have little or no impact.

Section 19 provides for a new offence relating to the failure to report information to the Garda. Certain people have been reluctant to make statements assisting the Garda because we do not tell tales in this country. We need more telling of tales by people who are aware that wrongdoing has occurred, whether fraud, money laundering, theft, bribery or corruption. In the interest of justice, when people have the moral conviction to expose wrongdoing they have to be supported and protected if they fear repercussion. Legislation on protecting whistleblowers is needed and I note the call by Transparency International for Ireland to adopt a generic whistleblower protection law which would cover whistleblowers in the public, private and non-profit sectors. In the absence of such protection, the existing provisions on whistleblower protection should be extended as an interim measure.

Anglo Irish Bank is unreasonably prolonging an investigation by claiming legal privilege, perhaps in the hope that the longer it is dragged out the less likely it is that it will lead to a significant resolution. It is hoped that the Bill will quicken the determination of privilege.

I will conclude with a practical point regarding original legal documents. I understand that if documents are signed and dated in blue ink they are more difficult to copy. Advantage could perhaps be taken of that potential in financial situations.

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