Mick Wallace (Wexford, Independent)

Deputy Regina Doherty argued that Fine Gael had not done a U-turn on the five-point plan. There should be credit where it is due and part of the plan relates how Fine Gael was the first party to argue that it was unfair for the Irish people to shoulder all the losses of our banks, and that it was right that investors who lent recklessly to the banks should share the pain. Perhaps I do not understand the term correctly but it seems like a U-turn.

It is hard to credit that Fine Gael and Labour believe they have a mandate from the people for their version of the bank bailout, which is identical to that of Fianna Fáil.

From the start of the debate we heard from many Members of both parties that burden sharing was vital and really important. Deputy Nolan told us we were jumping the gun, that there might yet be burden sharing. Last Friday, when the Minister for Finance, Deputy Noonan, was asked on RTE radio whether burden sharing had been asked for he stated his team had asked the ECB for it but the bank said it was not a runner. I take it, therefore, that right now it is not a runner.

We were told the deal Fianna Fáil came up with was not workable. The Tánaiste, Deputy Gilmore, insisted it was not workable. From their words we know most top economists believe it is not practical. God knows, we have a good idea it is not fair. Professor Honohan, the Governor of the Central Bank, has been very open in telling us that on the issue of fairness the deal does not rate very highly. It is hard to credit that the most vulnerable in our society will be hung out to dry in order to satisfy the problems of the financial institutions.

The banks had their stress tests. Perhaps the State needs them now because a number of people on the other side of the House told us the State is bankrupt. If it was not bankrupt before now there is a great chance that putting the bank debt with the sovereign debt will put us into the area of insolvency. A private company is deemed to be insolvent when its liabilities are greater than its assets. This debt certainly puts us into that place. If a private company went to the bank that bank would look at the company's potential for future profits and would say that if the company's future profits could cover the current losses perhaps it might do business. However, one would have to be very optimistic to see us paying the bills. Any private company that continues to borrow money when it is insolvent is regarded as trading recklessly. In my opinion, this Government is now trading recklessly.

It has been argued that this motion does not merit a referendum. Article 27 of the Constitution states that an amendment of the Constitution is applicable when a Bill "contains a proposal of such national importance that the will of the people thereon ought to be ascertained". I believe most people in this country would agree this is an issue of massive national importance. This Government has spoken a great deal about having a new approach to politics and more openness. It is prepared to engage the people. It speaks about looking at the Constitution and engaging with the people on it, which is very good. There is also a need to look at local government and engage and bring the citizen back into local government.

If this Government is serious about engaging the citizens of Ireland in a democratic process and about giving them a say in how they are governed it should have the courage for a referendum on this issue.

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