Catherine Murphy (Kildare North, Independent)

I wish to be associated with the congratulations to the Leas-Cheann Comhairle and I also congratulate the Minister of State, Deputy Jan O'Sullivan.

I was intrigued by the name of the portfolio Deputy Howlin will take up, which is the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform. I hope this will go far beyond reform of public expenditure because we need a vision on how we work and how we remodel our way of working and how our governance is organised. Deputy Howlin spoke about the principle of subsidiarity in the European Union. However, he did not speak about subsidiarity in terms of what we do at home. We have a very centralised system and a valid criticism made during the election campaign, one which has been made for many years, is that there is too much localism at national level. This localism cannot be eradicated if we do not have a change in where we make decisions. There needs to be serious reform whereby some decisions we make are moved to a reorganised local government system which is democratic, fair and works. This could also deliver efficiencies. This is missing from Deputy Howlin's speech. I realise it may not be Deputy Howlin's area and that others may have specific competency in this area. However, it is necessary to state this. If we continue to do work that is not properly done in Parliament we will reduce the role of Parliament.

I agree with Deputy Howlin on the need for the abolition of the Seanad. I do not see how it can be reformed and I wish to put this on the record.

A reduction in the number of committees has been discussed and last night I watched "Tonight with Vincent Browne" on which Deputy Costello made the point that it is intended to reduce the number of committees from 24 to 12. This was not included in Deputy Howlin's speech. If such detail is known it would have been useful to have it today. It poses particular questions given that if 134 Deputies and 60 Senators are to be included and have a right to be a member of one or more committee it would mean very large committees. I find that very large committees can be quite ineffective. However, having said that, in the short time I was a Member of the Dáil from 2005 to 2007 I witnessed other members of the committee of which I was a member who did not attend meetings.

From my experience of being a member of a raft of various committees outside of the Dáil, I found committees which worked best were those with a particular task with a beginning, middle and end. It would be perfectly possible for this type of committee or sub-committee to report on a particular body of work. This would require rules and regulations defining the body of work, the length of time and who would do the work. In reducing the number of committees there is the potential for efficiencies in the use of staff on the secretariat of those committees.

I agree the positions of committee chairman should be shared between Government and Opposition Members. I also agree that no payment should be made for the honour of chairing a committee. If this were so, we would be far more likely to get people who have a deep interest in being involved in a particular topic.

In his broad statement, Deputy Howlin stated the most glaring failure of our system of governance in recent years was the failure to provide checks and balances which would have reined in the excesses of the previous Administration. One of the reasons we have not had the type of oversight required is because of a movement to outsource government. Decisions made at one remove create a Teflon layer, and this was a description applied to a former Taoiseach. This has to be quickly and substantially reined in so we have democratic control over decisions on public expenditure. This was missing from the speech but it is absolutely essential if the work of the Dáil is to be meaningful.

One area that will dominate all committees is that of public service reform, because every committee has an element connected with this. We need to have a vision for public service reform rather than looking at it purely from the point of view of cutting expenditure. However, certainly we have to get value for money. I understand an overarching role will exist such as that of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Finance and Public Service in the previous Dáil. It will be necessary to debate at committee level how we can function with a smaller public service, because this is likely to be the case and it is outlined in the programme for Government. A total of 55,000 public servants are earmarked to lose their jobs. This will have a profound impact on front-line services. The members of the Technical Group want to spend their time usefully and effectively. I am aware that people in other walks of life have, in a sense, made a career out of being members of committees. Deputy Maureen O'Sullivan made an interesting point in her contribution regarding committees in the community and voluntary sector. People may have spent time on committees and no decisions were ever made. It seemed to be almost a job in itself to be a member of one committee after another. I do not want this to be the case in the Oireachtas and I hope committees will have a defined output because that would be in all our interests.

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