Seán Ó Fearghaíl (Kildare South, Fianna Fail)

Ba mhaith liom comhghairdeas a ghabháil leis an Leas-Cheann Comhairle as a bheith tofa anseo ar maidin. Is onóir speisialta í don Teachta agus dá chlann gur tofadh é d'aonghuth tar éis tréimhse fhada fhiúntach a chaitheamh sna Tithe seo.

I also congratulate Deputy Howlin on his appointment as Minister and I welcome, in particular, the fact that his remit covers public service reform. His zeal is well established and the public will have general confidence in him as he takes on the daunting challenge that lies ahead.

With regard to the limited subject matter before us, I welcome the opportunity to discuss the many strengths of our committee system, the many challenges the system faces and the way in which committees can be given a more prominent and effective role in our parliamentary democracy. I also welcome some of the Government's commitments set out by the Minister in the recent programme for Government aimed at strengthening the role of committees. We strongly support some of these measures but others will have a negative impact.

The debate is timely following the publication of the Moriarty tribunal's final report. The report has once again shed a light on the huge costs and inefficiencies associated with tribunals of inquiry and the need for an alternative, more efficient and inexpensive way of conducting inquiries in the future. The Government has proposed reversing the effects of the Abbeylara judgment to allow Dáil committees full powers of investigation and Fianna Fáil strongly supports this. In his statement to the Dáil on the Moriarty tribunal report this week, the Taoiseach announced the Government intends to scrap the current restrictions on the nature and extent of evidence by civil servants to Oireachtas committees and replace it with new guidelines that reflect the reality of the authority delegated to them and their personal accountability for the way it is exercised. We welcome and look forward to a full debate on these proposals when they are put before the Dáil.

Fianna Fáil fully supports a strong and well resourced committee system and believes this is the best way in which the Legislature can hold Government to account. While our committee system can be said to be weak and underdeveloped compared to some of our European counterparts, some of this is down to the fact that we have a relatively young committee system that was only properly developed and reformed since the early 1990s. We need to look at the current strengths and weaknesses of our committee system and how these can they be improved. Committees can be defined as a small group of legislators who are assigned, on either a temporary or permanent basis, to examine matters more closely than the full Chamber could. The strength of the committee system is that it enables Deputies to tease out legislation and put forward detailed amendments to the relevant Minister. The committee system tends to adopt a less adversarial approach than is taken in the Chamber.

Committees allow for specialisation giving Deputies and Senators the opportunity to pursue and gain expertise on particular policy areas. Unfortunately, not every Deputy or Senator approaches his or her respective committees in this manner and the level of dedication and interest can vary widely among committee members. One of the weaknesses of the current system is the large number of committees in operation. In order to ensure committees continue to encourage and foster specialisation, this must be addressed. There are 19 Oireachtas joint committees in total and I support the proposal in the programme for Government to somewhat reduce the number of committees. We need a stronger and more focused committee system, one that allows for specialisation. However, unfortunately the programme for Government does not give any specifics on how it intends to reduce the number of committees.

We believe the number of joint committees could be reduced from 19 as a certain number of committees overlap, such as the joint committee on European affairs and the joint committee on European scrutiny and also the joint committee on the environment and the joint committee on climate change. It would be wiser to have one joint committee for each of these areas with relevant sub-committees. We also propose a close correlation between Departments and committees as this allows committees to better participate in the policy development process and to hold each Minister and Department to account.

The Taoiseach recently seemed to forget his party's previous commitment to reduce the number of Ministers of State from 15 to 12 when he announced his 15 Ministers of State a few weeks ago. I hope that when it comes to reducing the number of committees, Fine Gael shows a stronger commitment to this area of reform.

While we support a reduced number of joint committees, we would like to see more focused and specialised committees. This will play to the strength of the committee system and offer a level of specialisation the Dáil cannot offer. One proposal is for a new joint committee on children to be created following the creation of the new Department with responsibility for children. Within this joint committee on children, we propose a sub-committee on children's welfare. A sub-committee on children's welfare was established by the Joint Committee on Health and Children shortly before the 30th Dáil was dissolved and I would like to see this committee re-established under a new joint committee on children. I commend the Taoiseach on creating the new Department with responsibility for children and his appointment of Deputy Frances Fitzgerald as Minister.

Regarding the committee on health, we propose setting up of a number of specialised sub-committees, such as a sub-committee on older people and a sub-committee on suicide. I recognise the enormous contribution of Deputy Dan Neville and Senator Mary White to the work of the previous sub-committee on suicide. The sub-committee on older people is particularly important considering that the Government, having appointed a Minister with responsibility for children, seems to have forgotten and neglected older people. A committee for older people, operating under the aegis of the committee on health, would be worthwhile.

While we support giving more time to committee work and encouraging elected Members to take their committee work more seriously, we do not agree with Fine Gael's proposal to devote Friday sitting days to committee reports. This is not a solution to the problem and simply pushes committee work to the margins of the Dáil working week. We would like to see the work of committees integrated into the Dáil week rather than pushed out to the edge.

Certain committees meet more than others, some are better attended and there is also a variation in the output of work. Each and every committee is as important as the next and should be treated as such by their members. We need to ensure a high and consistent standard across all committees. The answer is not simply to devote Friday sitting days to committee reports or introduce a committee week every fourth week. Similarly, Fine Gael's proposals to increase Dáil sitting days to four days is not necessarily the answer. There is no evidence that simply increasing the number of days where the Houses or committees of the Oireachtas meet will make any significant change in the quality of debate, the relevance of policy or the strength of legislation.

Instead, all parties need to ensure that committee members have a genuine interest in the policy area, in particular the committee chairmen. The success of the committee is dependent on the buy-in of all committee members to its work programme and the Chair's priorities must also reflect the members' priorities. We cannot have a situation where the Chair is allowed to use the committee for his or her agenda or where parties use committees as a system of patronage, with jobs for the boys and girls.

I was Chairman of the Joint Committee on Health and Children during the previous Dáil. A number of positive measures were introduced, which other committees would do well to consider. This ties in to the importance of buy-in from all committee members. The Joint Committee on Health and Children ensured that the former Minister for Health and Children, Mary Harney, and the former CEO of the HSE appeared before it on a quarterly basis. Committees benefit from a strong partnership approach with the relevant Minister. The Government of the day needs to ensure its Ministers are prepared to be open in their relationship with committees. While we need well resourced committees, it costs nothing to bring about a new mindset and partnership approach. I strongly recommend that the new committees engage regularly with their relevant Ministers and the relevant State agencies under their remit, not just on legislation but on the broad policy agenda.

While Committee Stage is the third stage in the legislative process, there is still a clear pattern of Government dominance of legislation at all stages. Committee members can table as many amendments as they see fit but unless the Minister is willing to take on board some, the committee's work is ineffective. Unfortunately, our current system means the Government continues to have a stranglehold over legislation.

One of the advantages of committees is their ability to engage with a wide range of interest groups. This ensures an important link between the public and our elected representatives. While committees regularly invite interest groups and public servants to appear before them and provide input into the work of the committee, there is also an opportunity for committees to travel around the country and meet with groups outside the environs of Leinster House. For example, the previous Joint Committee on Health and Children visited centres in Monaghan and Mosney to meet asylum seekers and witness at first hand the conditions in which they were living. The previous Joint Committee on Enterprise, Trade and Innovation, under its Chairman, Deputy Penrose, travelled around the country talking to business owners about access to credit. Both committee initiatives were beneficial and this type of active engagement should continue.

This kind of open relationship, whether it be with Ministers or particular interest groups enables more efficient and effective processing of legislation. It also creates stronger legislation by flagging particular flaws or changes that need to be made to legislation at critical stages. The success of a committee is down to its ability to take on board relevant views and effect change in the legislative process.

Apart from its legislative function, committees play an important role in providing oversight of the executive branch of Government but this depends on their ability to get evidence and compel witnesses. I welcome the Taoiseach's announcement this week that he intends to scrap the restrictions on the nature and extent of evidence by civil servants to Oireachtas committees and replace them with new guidelines.

The intention to bring forward a referendum on the Abbeylara judgment is welcome, as is the Government's intention to allow committees to conduct more effective investigations. However, if we expect the public, by way of referendum, to convey quasi-judicial powers on committees, we would need, I respectfully suggest, to demonstrate that we can abandon our primal, adversarial tendencies as politicians and show instead a greater capacity for balance, reason and mutual respect.

The Houses of the Oireachtas Commission, established under law, stands above the normal committee system. It has worked well. I urge the Government, Ceann Comhairle and Leas-Cheann Comhairle to re-establish it quickly.

I acknowledge the hard work and dedication of the staff of the committees. They are hardworking, dependable, committed, respectful of and fair to all committee members. It is essential that committees continue to be well resourced so that the important work of committee staff can continue. I acknowledge also the good work done by the communications unit on behalf of the committees.

In summary, Fianna Fáil supports a reduction in the number of Oireachtas committees, especially where duplication or overlap exists. We recommend the establishment of a number of sub-committees with focused responsibilities, for example, in the area of older people and child welfare. We endorse the proposal to hold a referendum on the Abbeylara issue, to allow committees to conduct effective investigations.

The Minister, Deputy Howlin, is anxious to ensure that the process is not just about Government, but about all the Members of the House. In this new situation where the Government has such a massive majority we must see a change in the process whereby more of the committee Chairs can be drawn from the ranks of the Opposition parties and groupings to ensure that we have transparency, accountability and effective oversight of the legislative process in the public interest.

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