Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail)

Táim sásta go bhfuil an díospóireacht seo ar siúl anocht mar is deis é tosú ar phlé faoin gcineál córas cánach ar mhaith linn.

Goilleann sé orm nuair a cheapann páirtí polaitíochta sa Teach seo gur aige atá an ceart morálta faoi chuile ceist. Tá daoine ar chuile thaobh den Teach gur cúis leo gnáthphobal na tíre. Is minic go bhfuil dea-rud déanta, mar shampla, ag Sinn Féin, mar a chonaic mé féin san am a chaith mé ar Bhóthar Gharbh Eachaidh, ar Bhóthar an Fhuaráin Mhór, ar Bhóthar na bhFál, ar Bhóthar Bhaile Andarsan, i mBaile Uí Mhurchú, i dTaobh an Bhogaigh, agus le pobal an Droichid. Ní raibh aon bhuntáiste ann seachas do ghnáthphobal na tíre. Creidim go bhfuil mé agus mo leithéid chomh dáiríre faoin bpolaitíochta agus atá Sinn Féin. Ní chreidim go bhfuil an ceart morálta ar fad ag Sinn Féin agus tá lochtanna ar chuid dá pholasaí.

Tá mé sásta éisteacht agus breathnú ar gach moladh a chuirtear chun cinn. Tá sé tábhachtach go mbrathnófar ar na ceisteanna seo ar fad. B'fhéidir go bhfuil cuid de mhíniú an rúin ann i ngeallúint a thug Sinn Féin go gcuirfeadh sé deireadh leis an muirear sóisialta uilíoch; tuigeann an páirtí anois nach féidir leis sin a dhéanamh, agus mar sin, caithfidh sé na sean-dleachtanna a chur ar ais.

Má táimid dáiríre faoin gceist seo, tá dhá rud ann: an córas féin agus an leibhéal ag a mbaintear cáin ó dhaoine éagsúla. Dhá rud difriúil ar fad iad. Tá Sinn Féin ag iarraidh dul ar ais chuig an seanchóras a bhíodh ann. Duine a bhíonn ag plé le duine atá ar phá íseal atá ag iarriadh tuairisceán cánach a chur isteach, tá a fhios aige go bhfuil an córas faoi láthair bun os cionn agus nach dtuigeann an gnáthphobal é. Is iomaí uair nach gcuireann daoine isteach tuairisceán cánach mar ceapeann siad go bhfuil an scéal ró-chasta.

An chaoi go bhfuil cúrsaí go dtí deireadh na bliana, tá ceithre asbhaint á ndéanamh as pá chuile duine - ÁSPC, an tobhach sláinte, an tobhach ioncaim agus cáin ioncaim. Rud ar bith a laghdaíonn líon na ndleachtanna sin, is ar son an phobail atá sé. Éinne atá ag iarraidh dul ar ais chuig an seanchóras, is siar atá siad ag iarraidh a dhul.

Ceann de na rudaí a chuir mise romham nuair a chuaigh mé isteach sa Roinn Coimirce Sóisialaí ná go ndéanfaimid laghdú ar líon na rátaí ÁSPC atá sa taobh seo tíre. Ag an am sin, bhí thart faoi 36 ráta ÁSPC ann. Ní dócha gur thuig éinne ar thalamh an domhain cén chaoi a raibh sin ag oibriú. Ba cheart go mbeadh chuile duine, féin-fhostaithe nó fostaithe, ag íoc ÁSPC ag 4%.

Ba cheart freisin deireadh a chur leis an teorainn ioncaim ag a n-íocann daoine ÁSPC; ní raibh daoine ag íoc ÁSPC thar ráta áirithe ioncaim go dtí an bhliain seo. Mhol mise don Aire Airgeadais go gcuirfí deireadh leis sin agus ar gach ioncam a bheadh ag duine, go n-íocfaí 4%, féin-fhostaithe nó fostaithe. Tharla ansin go mbeadh buntáiste le fáil ag duine as ucht an ÁSPC a íoc. Tá an leasú sin curtha i bhfeidhm agus creidim gur fearr a thuigeann an pobal córas mar sin ná córas le 36 ráta éagsúil.

Tá roinnt obair bhreise le déanamh. Ní thuigim cén fáth nach bhfuilimid ag íoc an ghnáthchórais ÁSPC sa Teach seo, táimid ag íoc an 4% anois ach ba cheart go mbeadh chuile fostaí sa tír, agus chuile duine féin-fostaithe, ag íoc 4% ar ioncam saothraithe.

Ansin, bhí an coras tobhaigh shláinte agus an córas tobhaigh ioncaim ann. Bhí sin casta mar bhí an tobhach ioncaim curtha isteach leis an ÁSPC; bhí daoine ag íoc tobhaigh shláinte ach go minic cheap siad go raibh siad ag íoc ÁSPC ach ní raibh aon bhuntáiste dá bharr agus, dar liom, dearmad a bhí ann. Tá sé thar am againn leasú a dhéanamh ar an gcóras ó bhun go barr. Is rud é sin a thógfaidh roinnt mhaith de bhlianta, mar tá sé deacair leasuithe a dhéanamh gan mhíbhuntáiste a bheith ann do dhuine ar bith.

Ó thaobh an fhostaí de, ba cheart breathnú ar an iomlán: ÁSPC, tobhach ioncaim, tobhach sláinte, nó mar atá anois, an MSU, agus cáin ioncaim, agus breathnú ar thionchar an iomláin ar an duine, ní ar cad a dhéanann aon cheann acu faoi leith. Sin mar a bhreathnaíonn an duine air, cé mhéid a baineadh as an phá ag an Stát. Is cuma leis cén lipéad atá air, sin atá sé ag iarraidh a dhéanamh amach. Ba cheart an córas cánach a dhéanamh níos simplí. Go fad-téarmach, d'aontóinn le Sinn Féin, ní ceart go mbeadh ann ach an córas cánach agus an córas ÁSPC agus ba mhaith liom dul ar ais go dtí an pointe sin.

Maidir leis an gcóras cánach, ba cheart fáil réidh leis na faoisimh bheaga ar fad. Thosaigh muid ag déanamh sin le blianta beaga anuas, mar shampla, an faoiseamh a bhí ann do bhruscar agus an faoiseamh a bhí do ranníocaíochta le haghaidh ceardchumann. An fáth nár aontaigh mé leis na faoisimh sin ná an dream ba mhó a bhí ag fáil buntáiste mar thoradh orthu ná an dream a bhí eolach faoin gcóras agus a thuig leis an bhfoirm a líonadh agus na liúntais ar fad a tharraignt. Is minic a tháinig daoine agus an iomarca cánacha íoctha acu mar bhí faitíos orthu tuairisceán cánach a chur isteach. Bhí siad ar ioncam íseal, agus mar sin, níor tharraing siad na liúntais ar fad a bhí ag dul dóibh. B'fhearr liomsa, agus leis an bpobal, go mbeadh liúntas saor ó cháin maith ann agus go bhfaighfaí réidh leis na faoisimh bheaga nach bhfuil ann ach anró do dhaoine agus go bhfuil formhór an phobail ina dteideal ar aon chaoi. There is much I could say on this. There is much more we could say about reform, which we will have an opportunity to discuss.

The Government says it will carry out a review of the universal social charge. We need fundamental reform of income tax, PRSI, the USC and all levies taken from people's wages. I hope one of the first things that will happen is that committees will be set up and the Government will ensure we have an opportunity to discuss these issues in detail. Because of my time as a co-op manager when I dealt with wages manually, I have strong views on the tax system. During most of the period that Fianna Fáil was in Government, from 1997 to 2008 or 2009, we managed to take many low-income people out of the tax net. I was in favour of that. I could not understand the logic of paying family income supplement to a person while in the same week taking income tax from him or her. I do not go along with the idea that during our years in Government we did not do much to take the low-paid out of the tax net. In fact, we did an unprecedented amount. If any Deputies were doing wage slips back in the 1970s and 1980s and manually taking off tax, as I had to do every week, they would have seen the major change that occurred in recent years when low-paid workers were taken out of the tax system, to the extent that 45% of people with an income were not paying tax.

Another thing I do not agree with is an automatic exemption from levies, income tax or any other tax for those receiving social welfare payments. There are many people receiving social welfare payments who have astronomical incomes. The case of widows and widowers is always cited. Because everyone, self-employed or employee, pays PRSI, a person could be on an income of €150,000 per year while receiving a widow's or widower's pension. This is quite legitimate. Such people do not pay a levy on their pensions. When one looks at it in the cold light of day, one must ask why such people should be exempt from paying the USC, the income levy or the health levy. The exemptions should be based on income and not on whether, due to some circumstance, a person is receiving a social welfare payment. There is no relationship between one's income and one's entitlement to a social welfare payment in the PRSI system.

There is another issue on which we must move carefully, and we amended the provisions in this regard in the Finance Bill. I did not agree with the connection between medical cards and income tax, health levies and other wage deductions. What happens in practice, as we all know, is that if the medical card is linked to income tax, it inhibits people from improving themselves or their wages. When a person loses his or her medical card, he or she must start paying all the income levies and health levies ab initio, which results in a loss of money. This means that people do not want to take overtime or improve themselves. It is regressive. It is much better to link all reliefs to people's actual income. This results in a much fairer system, because all the money goes towards giving relief to people on the lowest incomes. The other system creates all sorts of poverty traps and irrationality - particularly that of the medical card - which have held many people back. I suggest that the money saved by not using the medical card as an income test be put back into adjusting the income limit.

I would have had much more sympathy for the Sinn Féin motion if it had been more up-front. It is a bit of a cod. The Minister pointed to an inconsistency in the motion. If Sinn Féin wanted to be transparent, it would have said that nobody should have to pay the USC on a certain portion of their income, but people should pay 2% on the next portion, 4% on the next portion, or whatever. It should not have recommended that we revert from the USC, which is at least a combined single system, to the old dual system with all its levels and traps, which was totally flawed. One can argue about the level at which the USC kicks in - we would all much prefer if the level was higher - but there are challenges involved in raising the money required.

I would love to have access to the computer again. I was trying to get information from the Department of Finance yesterday. I was told to table a parliamentary question, but that was not much good for tonight.

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