Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)

It is not Bertie speak. I am trying to explain something here. I have been asked a question and want to answer it. It is not a big deal. That is the situation.

On the question of what happened subsequently, of course I would rather that situation had not occurred, but it was an innocent engagement of a game of golf. The people who played the game of golf were the three people mentioned by the Deputy, including myself. I do not play much golf, but I have explained the reason I was available that day. It was the first day of the holidays after the last Cabinet meeting and that is the size of it. Subsequently, people joined us at a meal after the golf game. I was asked by The Sunday Times if I had played a game of golf with Seán FitzPatrick and Fintan Drury on such a date and I answered that I had. Sin é. When I came into the House to give full answers with regard to anything arising from that, I was able to give any further information the Deputy wanted. However, it is not relevant nor detailed. Nothing arises.

It is not an abuse of privilege for the Deputy to ask the questions he is asking, but when I suggested to him that he speak outside of the House I was asking what I am supposed to be guilty of as a result of all of this or what I am supposed to do about it. It was if the Deputy had anything to say about that, which might be libellous or have the potential to do down my good name and character, I would rather that was done outside and then I would take legal advice on it. However, the Deputy has not made that case. He has simply created this picture and that is what he is at.

I am making it very clear to the Deputy that this is the context and content of the whole situation and if he has anything to adduce from it or anything of which to accuse me as a result, he should set it out for me. All I know is that I played a game of golf and had a meal and was talking to people in a social context and that there were discussions of serious and less serious issues in terms of economics, jobs and all the rest and of what we could do given that a recession was upon us. Subsequently, issues happened as a result of due diligence after the loan guarantee. Corporate governance issues arose in November-December of that year and the bank was nationalised subsequently. That is the sequence. If people want to project all the knowledge we know now back to that point in time, that is where people try to suggest that something inappropriate happened. The facts do not bear that out. I have explained all of that. I cannot give the Deputy any more detail; I do not have the menu or anything like that.

If there is anything else the Deputy wants to discuss, let us know. However, he should start stacking it up now and say something, rather than just leave it out there, because the purpose of leaving it out there is to give people an impression which has no validity in fact. That is what I am saying.

I answered the Deputy's second question in what I have just said.

The Deputy's third question related to the April dinner. Again, I do not - no one could have without assistance - full recollection in that regard. I was fulfilling an engagement, which had been sought some months before but which I did not fulfil. I was leaving the Department of Finance at the time, having been appointed leader designate of Fianna Fáil. I decided to honour the engagement, which had been delayed as set down when the usual issues arose. I am sure, as was stated earlier by Deputy Kenny in a previous encounter about this, there were various things said by various people from the banks who were outlining their general position.

We all know that from August 2007, following the Lehman's debacle, there was a tightening of credit throughout the system. In fact, the Department of Finance had been seeking to manage that throughout the year, as was the Central Bank. They are the people who were seeking to ensure stability and liquidity within the system. That was something that every Central Bank in Europe and in other currency areas were also doing. This had caused a huge shock in the system over time. The tightening of liquidity continued over that period. They are the details. In regard to Mr. David Drumm, I think that is the only time I ever met the man.

The Deputy's next question was, arising out of what went on, did I do anything and of what am I accused of doing when I went to that dinner. Again, nothing. The Deputy stated that the suggestion is made in reports that Mr. Drumm said I did this, that and the other for Anglo Irish Bank, that I would get funds from the National Treasury Management Agency, NTMA, to put into Anglo Irish Bank. The man who runs the NTMA, when asked about this, stated he had never been asked by the Minister for Finance to do anything like that. That is still not accepted. We then get another story and away we go again with the Deputy rising in the House and saying that he will not pass remark on Mr. Drumm and asking: "Let's hear you deny it." It is the old LBJ stuff, namely, accuse him and let us hear him deny it. That is the game the Deputy is at.

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