Joanna Tuffy (Dublin Mid West, Labour)

Today's statements come from the agreement in the original programme for Government that there would be a carbon budget. Originally, the carbon budget was contained and announced in the Budget Statement and then followed up by a statement by the Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government the following day. This process has been watered down over the years to where it is now just statements long after the headline issues of the Budget Statement have been dealt with.

One of the Minister's first announcements when he took office was that he was going to ban energy inefficient light bulbs in a year. I accept some progress was made by the Minister in this respect. I do not think what has been done to phase out light bulbs has achieved that much in terms of reducing emissions. It is a small part of the overall picture, but at the time of announcement it was dramatic and was given a significance that never transpired. The carbon reductions are largely due to the recession and this is reflected in the Minister's statement.

When we think about climate change we tend to speak in terms of playing our part in shouldering the burden. We have figures for the reductions in emissions but this has resulted from the recession which is causing people a great deal of pain and hardship. If we see the reductions in emission as a cloud, the silver lining is that we will no longer need to purchase carbon credits.

I agree that we need to create clean jobs. In the course of his statement, the Minister refers to the bubble economy, but we must be careful that we do not create a green bubble. Concerns have been expressed about the number of wind farms and while we need to explore the proposals for wind energy, it is important that we do not build wind farms in the wrong place. The profit motive is very important for private companies, and there is always a possibility that we will have a green bubble in the way we had a housing bubble. We need a framework for green jobs to ensure that does not happen. The Labour Party sets out its proposals for green jobs in the document The Energy Revolution. The term green jobs can cover many different areas, for example the role of technology in reducing our emissions and, even in the office, technology has a role in sustainable developments.

The Minister outlines the arguments for price mechanisms as the most efficient way to change behaviour. That might be true, but only if it is done correctly. An example of a change in people's behaviour was very evident following the introduction of a plastic bag levy. I am not sure that putting an additional 4 cent on a litre of petrol will change behaviour, as this increase is not unlike an excise duty. We have had increases in the price of petrol, one year the increase is the result of an increase in excise duty and the next year it is called carbon taxes and it could be called excise duties the year following that. I have noticed that I need to fill my car more often and that it is costing me more but people need an alternative way to get to work. Such an option is not always available. I am not sure carbon taxes always change behaviour, to change behaviour we need to implement the correct carbon taxes. Using a pricing mechanism to change how people use water or energy can also exacerbate inequality in terms of income inequality. I have made the point about equality in society. The authors of the book The Spirit Level: Why More Equal Societies Almost Always do Better highlight evidence that more equal societies do better. They have looked at evidence from different countries and from different states in the US over a 30 year period, comparing countries with income equality with those with less income equality. They have found that countries with a smaller gap between rich and poor do better on a range of indicators, one of which is their environmental performance. Countries with greater income equality such as Sweden have a better record on environmental protection and recycling. There is more solidarity in these societies and there is less focus on competition through consumption of goods.

One of the problems I have with people who lobby for climate change is that they ignore the issue of equality. Lobby groups such as Stop Climate Chaos lobby for carbon taxes but do not lobby for more income equality. As far as I can make out countries with greater social democracy have a better record in dealing with climate change. It is very important to do things fairly. The way we approach the reduction in carbon emissions by implementing carbon taxes is likely to exacerbate inequality in Irish society.

The publication of the climate change Bill is welcome. The Labour Party has been to the fore in seeking a climate change Bill. Senator Ivana Batik introduced a Bill on climate change in the Seanad a couple of years ago. Deputy Liz McManus has been very proactive on this issue and will no doubt comment on it.

The carbon budget was a very different creature when the Green Party entered Government. When the Minister for Finance referred to it in a paragraph of his Budget Statement, it was a highlight for the party. The Minister for the Environment, Heritage and Local Government made a statement the following day outlining the detail and the table. I did not get that table and I still have not got that table.

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