Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)

No. There has been a great deal of discussion in respect of fraud and there is a presumption that massive fraud is taking place. All of the cases with which I have dealt in recent times involve instances where people's payments were cut off. These individuals did not receive their payments for a considerable period thereafter. The position with regard to deliberate fraud is different. I accept that a minority of people are probably involved in such fraud.

The presumption that all new technology is good and that we should automatically put it in place does not stand up to scrutiny. Let us recall what happened with regard to the electronic voting machines. There were those of us who were opposed to the introduction of such machines because we were aware of what they could be used to do. It was proven beyond doubt that the technology to be used for electronic voting was not reliable. The PPARS system used by the HSE was also not reliable and did not do the job for which it was intended.

Deputy Shortall is correct. If new technology is to be introduced, this should be done on a very small scale and in such a way that it will not give rise to enormous costs. In addition, contracts which would commit us to massive investment during the next ten years in respect of technology that might not work at all should not be entered into.

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