Tony Killeen (Clare, Fianna Fail)

I am sure the Deputy will have an opportunity to speak eventually. When we were still in the market, we were paying more in interest to borrow money for approximately the same length of time. We are no longer in the market. We have entered into a programme for a period of years. It allows us to stay out of the market, in the first instance. It also gives us an opportunity to re-enter the market when conditions settle. At that time, we will be able to avail of a cheaper interest rate. It is important to bear in mind that as a country, we need to have a range of borrowings in order to be able to do business in the way we do. Some borrowings are over a relatively short period of time, perhaps three years. Other borrowings are over a much longer timeframe, perhaps nine or ten years.

Many people choose to ignore the fact that if we were to continue to borrow €18 billion per annum, we would have to do so in the open market at an interest rate of 9% or 10%. It would be entirely unaffordable for the country to enter into such a long-term commitment. It is important that we look at the four year plan, the borrowing requirement and the availability of money under the facility in those terms. If one considers those factors in an objective manner, one will agree that the interest rate is better than it was the last time we were in the market for borrowing of the same duration.

Deputies on most sides of the House agree that the four year plan sets out a programme that is difficult but attainable. It is difficult because a gap of approximately €18 billion has developed between the State's income and the cost of the services the State provides. It is clear that such an unsustainable gap has to be reduced. We are reducing it by €6 billion, which is a big chunk, by making this year's alteration, the details of which will be made available next Tuesday. I do not doubt that they will be debated at length before they are voted on. That element of the programme will be dealt with in such a manner. Lesser amounts will have to be dealt with in each of the following three years. One of the elements of the programme is that an additional year is available. If the 3% target is not reached - I think it will be - we can take another year to reach it. That is another advantage of the manner in which the programme has been laid out and the opportunities presented by it.

When Deputy O'Dowd was talking, I was reminded of the comment of the US satirist, P.J. O'Rourke, that a country cannot vote itself richer. He said a lot of other interesting things, not all of which I would choose to quote. The over-concentration on the idea that an election will sort everything will present enormous difficulties for the parties that will be on the Government side of the House after we go to the polls. Before I let in my colleague, Deputy Fahey, I want to mention that last night I went into some of the problems I see being created. I made the point that there is a particular onus on people in this House. It is different from the onus on commentators and others. We should give some thought to that.

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